[JimmyT]

I think one of the earliest prototypes must have a hollow core electrode. We really need to measure that electron beam. Both to figure out if its worth capturing and figuring how much it adds to the cooling load.
This also suggests that a concentric shell design might be the way to go.
What does the butt end of that base plate look like? Is there room for a small passage? The innermost tube or two could be something other than beryllium too. Since we will be unable to collect those x-rays headed directly downward anyway. Introducing the “cool” helium via the innermost cooling tube to exit and head downward close to the tip would have the added advantage of maximizing the cooling at the tip where cooling is the biggest problem.

If you are only going to do 1 pulse every 10 minutes or so on the experimental device you might not have to worry about cooling at that stage of the project at all. Is that true? In which case the electron beam captureing/measuring device could be built right into the electrode base since coolant disruption wouldn’t be a factor.

[JimmyT]

This isn’t going to be cryogenic helium. The temperature at which it enters the focus fusion device is probably going to be 250 to 300 Degrees Fahrenheit or so. It’s exit temperature will probably be on the order of 800 to 900 Fahrenheit degrees. So the entire operating temperature range is going to be way above what could be could be considered cryogenic.

One unusual thing about helium (and hydrogen) is they are already above their Boyle temperatures even at room temperature. So they do not undergo Jule Thompson cooling even at room temperature. In fact they become hotter when expanded adiabatically. So any cooling must be strictly by heat transfer.

If any of these terms are unfamiliar to you. I can explain them.

[JimmyT]

Yeah Aero, but that’s not Rematog’s point. His point is not the number of BTUs delivered but the temperature of the heat. I’ts an entropy thing not an enthalpy thing.

[JimmyT]

I think the best argument against cold fusion is one called “the missing dead graduate student argument”. It goes something like this:

Professors don’t run their own experiments. Instead they have their lowly graduate students do it. Under the guise of “supervision” professors then take full credit for the outcome in the resulting research papers.

“But there arn’t any dead graduate students”, you may say.

Exactly! So there must not be cold fusion.

There would be dead grad students laying around all over the place in several different research labs if cold fusion was for real. This would occur as a result of the neutron flux that would from the levels of excess heat they reported.

[JimmyT]

I don’t know Rezwan, some people regard the futures markets (at least the ones where real money is involved) to be very accurate predictors of future events. They are certainly viewed that way with regard to elections in the USA.

Futures trades could suggest to some people that Focus Fusion is a real possibility in the fairly near future, and not some far fetched dream.

[JimmyT]

But…. I just don’t think it is right to gleefully suggest utilities get the shaft for making the NECESSARY investments in long term capital assets needed to provide the electric power needed to run our civilization.

I live in Baton Rouge, and personally witnessed the effects of a city without power for over a week. Lines in front of Wal-Mart, hoping to get in to buy food (no power, no lights, no cash register). After only a half hour in line, I was let into the store… then an employee told me to hurry, the generator was almost out of gas, and if I didn’t check out before the power died, I’d not get the food, batteries, etc I’d been able to find. I had to wait over an hour for gas, as gas stations didn’t have power to pump the gas. Believe me, life without power was very unpleasant.

Utilities have a legal OBLIGATION to serve. They can’t wait for FF to change the world. And many of the assets they currently hold were built in the ‘70’s, 80’sand 90’s. They are partial depreciated. But, the remainder of the book value, like the remained of a 30 year mortgage after 20 years, needs to be re-paid.

That is what I’m talking about when I mention stranded assets.

Rematog,
I agree with every word of the above post. The entire post. And your post which follows it. And I realize that as a originator of this technology we will have no special rights with regards to its deployment. But the above argument does reveal a slippery slope. Exactly the same arguments could be stated about the stranded assets in coal, oil, wind farms, solar farms, factories that make any products supporting the mentioned businesses……ad naseum. It is difficult to know where to draw the line. And I’m not suggesting that I have any answers either.

like you say, nuff’ said.

[JimmyT]

With regards to investments in a fusion economy:

I really believe that the motive fuel of choice in the short term will become compressed natural gas. This is gas that we won’t be using to power the grid or winter heating of commercial & residential buildings. (Electric heat with cheap electricity should be a no brain-er)

It seems like the “holy grail” of auto power is all electric vehicles. But there are some problems associated with that. Our current battery technology is just not up to the task. The battery technology which we do have is based on lithium batteries. And there just is not enough lithium available to build enough batteries for an automotive fleet. True, there are some advances which might occur which would make this argument void (like ultra-capacitors). But these advances remain to be seen.

The automotive industry could readily convert to building natural gas vehicles. The technology is well established. And home refueling equipment is already available. This does add a little bit to the cost of each automobile for the cost of the pressure tanks. But this is theoretically a one time expense for car owners. These tanks don’t wear out. So the sale price of the worn out autos should reflect a premium for the salvage value of the tanks.

Now, if I’m right about this. I wonder who makes those tanks?

Oh, and Brian. The cars will continue to belch forth carbon dioxide.

[JimmyT]

I’m not sure that I have a particular problem with a few months lag time to allow the utilities to recoup some stranded costs. Years of delay I would have problems with. We do need the utility companies for terminal distribution, billing services, etc. if nothing else.

[JimmyT]

Rematog,
Yeah, I can see that you are right on this. I guess I was thinking that the regluated sales price of electricity would occur before the regulated purchase price was adjusted.
NOT LOGICAL!

Just the opposite is more likely, right? So the utilitys would reap a windfall.

[JimmyT]

Hope you are right.

[JimmyT]

Question:

Wouldn’t the generation costs with focus fusion probably be less than the “unfavorable” avoidance rates established by some commission? Wouldn’t this make recovering stranded assets difficult?

At the same time I’m aware that all this could be changed with the stroke of a pen.

Somehow I knew I’d be talking to Rematog bout’ this. ( I must be psychotic!)

[JimmyT]

From Wikipedia “Independent power producers”

“Section 210 of PURPA now requires utilities to purchase energy from NUGs (non utility generators) which qualify at the utility’s
avoided cost. This allows NUGs to receive a reasonable to excellent price for the energy they produce and insures that energy generated by small producers won’t be wasted.”

Comments?

[JimmyT]

JimmyT wrote:

What I like most about these fusion forums is some of the people here who are very open – minded about the unlimited possibilities when thinking outside the box …… even if some of the ideas are somewhat crank – y and crack – pott – E and will not always work. You’ve got to wade through an endless swamp of unworkable ideas, tossing most of them out one by one, before occasionally stumbling upon that rare valuable gem of a discovery. But the rare valuable gem makes the effort well worth it.

I don’t know if you have ever heard of the ignobel prize awards. They are sort of a companion of the Nobel prize awards, but generally involve a bit less work. One such award was for the field of psyco ceramics. “the study of cracked pots”

Google it if you feel so inclined. Some are quite funny. Others will make you think. “Why won’t this idea work?” For example one researcher stated that he saved his organization thousands of dollars by sparing them the purchase of an electron microscope. How did he do this? He repeatedly enlarged an object on a copy machine until, he reasoned, he had achieved similar enlargment to what an electron microscope could achieve.

Obviously there is something wrong with this idea. But what exactly? Why wouldn’t this work? Like I said, makes you think.

[JimmyT]

duplicate post

[JimmyT]

Me,
It is probably going to be a year or more before this becomes really big news. You could be an expert in this stuff by that time. And many people around you will not have even have heard of it.

[Author]

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