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The article, “3.25 Billion Degrees — The Gateway to Fusion Power” was posted yesterday to Daily Kos.

I want to thank the people who contributed to its refinement — Ignas Gavelis, Oliver Snow, Jas Strong, Warwick Dumas, and of course Eric.

The article was up for the best part of a day and received 28 recommends (moderately high) and I had 35 counts in my tip jar, a separate means of endorsement. There were 46 comments, some of which were fatuous and some were responses from me. The remainder were mixed but generally positive. Most of my responses to negative comments received high recommendations. One respondent stated that her son had been following the progress of LPP and was studying to be a plasma physicist!

The most interesting response was indirectly critical and cited a fascinating article about neutron production, among other things. It is found on Wikipedia so the author is not known. I imagine Eric and the crew have considered many of the points made, but it makes an interesting read. We may run into these criticisms later. The link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion#Residual_radiation_from_a_p.E2.80.9311B_reactor

Again, thanks to all

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A fascinating article. This is the first I have seen of a timeline, and it is very encouraging. One interesting technical point mentioned is the problem of how to get rid of waste heat, and I have a suggestion.

We who live in coastal Southern California can only look forward to ever increasing shortages of pure water. We have had cutbacks and rationing in the past, and they seem to be in our future.

My town is situated to make a very productive use of the waste heat, distilling water from the Pacific Ocean to get fresh. I have already done the math, and the number of 5MW plants sufficient to supply us with electricity and end our dependence on the grid would be nearly enough to supply us with all the water we need and avoid any shortages. Many other communities which do not have access to the ocean nonetheless have substantial amounts of brackish groundwater which could be purified.

Keep on. I am looking forward to all of this.

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The ease of introduction of FF power into existing grids will vary from state to state. Governmental red tape and political opposition from vested interests will provide obstacles in some states. In California and possibly many other states the process may not be so difficult.

During one of our many energy crises, California lawmakers passed legislation permitting private entities and individuals to generate electricity and requiring the power companies to buy it at the rate that it would cost the power companies to generate it themselves. The results have been multifold. Power companies have not built any major generating stations since the Diablo Canyon nuclear facility almost thirty years ago, even though the population of the state has increased by thirty percent since then. The law has allowed a competition among sources of electricity which has resulted in about forty percent of our power coming from these private entities, which generally burn natural gas. I have not heard of any significant bureaucratic hurdles to their proliferation.

This legal framework and the history of power generation in this state would indicate that FF power might find a ready entry point here and perhaps in a number of other states. The low projected cost of generation (did I hear .2 cent/kwh?) would be a powerful selling point.

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The distributed nature of FF power generation would also eliminate most of the colossal losses of power associated with long distance transmission. It has been estimated that 40% of the power sent five hundred miles from Boulder dam to Los Angeles is lost as heat in the conductors. More local generation would eliminate these losses.

I have also blocked out how my own small, ocean front town could at very reasonable cost generate enough electricity for its inhabitants. We would not only become independent of the grid, but also we could use the waste heat from the generators to purify enough seawater for our water needs, making us no longer dependent on thousand mile long distribution networks.

The presence of intermittent sources of power, such as wind or solar, would be useful during daytime peak usage when air conditioners are running at full blast. The net result would be to smooth out the demand from FF sources and make the use of them more efficient.

I see a very workable future in all of this.

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Fantastic!

It has long seemed that much of cosmology (and several other sciences) was best described as a cabal of true believers trying to protect the sacred knowledge from an onslaught of facts. Minds were closed; eyes glazed over. Ptolemaic is certainly the applicable term.

From the data cited by Eric there are two possible outcomes. The data will eventually hammer down the bogus theorizing and force a total revision, or the old guard will just die off, and their theorizing will pass with them.

Either way, it seems that Eric is on the right track.

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No one should be surprised at this.

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Some years ago I read that a mass of hot (1 million degree) gas was detected between the galaxies in the Virgo cluster. It was not considered enough to make up the famous “missing mass,” but this new discovery indicates that there could be substantially more, just diffuse and undetectable at that distance. If the need to postulate mysterious “dark matter” were to disappear, would this affect theories about dark energy?

Other questions arise: Why is this gas so hot, and if it is radiating energy in the form of x-rays, how does it stay so hot? A giant mass of plasma surrounding our galaxy would be a giant, spherical conductor. How would electro-magnetic currents behave within it? How could we detect them?

This discovery is potentially a very big eye-opener.

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Brian H has found a magnificent article, and all should read it. It seems to be inspired in part by “The Big Bang Never Happened,” but the main points are compactly expressed and very quotable.

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The article was good, if a bit tokamak-heavy, and the collaboration with Azad University could lead to some interesting developments, but there are a few qualifications.

LPP is wading out into a sea full of hungry sharks, and I refer to the political situation. Despite the fact that Persians are in the main a decent and honorable people, their current government is on the U.S. “bad boy list” over the nuclear power/uranium enrichment/bomb business. There are those here who would like nothing more than to smash Iran back to the stone age, even though the uranium enrichment is only a smokescreen for the real reason. They have a vested interest in maintaining the tension, and the LPP collaboration with a Persian university has the potential of knocking the props out from under their arguments and spoiling their game. They may wish to fight to preserve their leverage. The sharks, you see.

I hope my reservations are unwarranted. I would only advise extreme caution — trouble could come from unexpected quarters.

I must say, though, that you did put a smile on my face.

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Rezwan’s idea is superb! If the possibility of making a bomb were off the table, why would Iran still want to enrich uranium? It is not well known that that country’s supply of oil, a very poor grade, is in decline, and the means to generate electricity for a fairly large population will need to be developed. Building conventional reactors may seem the best way to fill the need, but the alternative of cheap and safe fusion power may raise a few eyebrows among the leadership in that country. It could certainly solve a number of problems.

Persia, as it is properly called, is a proud nation with a long, rich history and a highly educated population. The fusion alternative could give any proponents the high ground to stand upon. The leaders of that country might relish an opportunity to make such a move.

It must be said that not everyone would welcome a chance to defuse international tensions. Some individuals see gain in conflict and confrontation. They would need to be exposed, outflanked, and nutralized.

This all can be done.

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I have thought a lot about this possibility and I would love to see my own community become independent of the local grid, but what would it take?

Using somewhat more conservative figures, let us assume 5MW per plant. We have 7,500 homes, and let’s allow for air conditioning and electric ranges and use an average of 4KW per house. My experience as a local electrician would support this higher figure. We do the math, and six plants could supply my town’s needs. Add two more for occasional peak needs and backup for shutdowns to do maintenance, and we have eight. At, as I have read, $250,000 per plant, total cost is $2Mil. Selling the citizens on a bond issue for this amount would be very feasible, especially considering how their electric bills would dwindle by perhaps a factor of ten.

However, two areas of difficulty remain — one technical and the other economic/political.

Power is supplied by Southern California Edison to my community by three mainlines which march in parallel down the coast about a half mile apart. Perpendicular to these and linking to them is another mainline right through the middle of town to the ocean. From our perspective we have seven lines radiating outward to other communities and ultimately to the generators. Sometimes power goes one way, sometimes the other. This is the grid. Approximately ten times the power travels through our town than we extract and use ourselves. We could not readily isolate ourselves from this encumbrance to become truly independent. But . . . By state law, any entity can generate electricity and the power company is compelled to purchase it, so my town could generate enough watts for its citizens, sell it to SCE and remit the bulk of the price to the consumers. This raises the second area of difficulty.

Many individuals resent the concept of government taking part in any enterprise which could be monopolized by the private sector and yield a profit. Occasionally here, an attempt is made to privatize water companies, trash collection, and other services. There has been considerable success privatizing law enforcement and prison administration. I can hear the screams already if my town sought to usurp the power company’s prerogatives. I am not saying that this would be impossible to overcome, but there would be a struggle.

A worthy struggle, I say.

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Sweet! A most welcome correction.

Net water — I like it. The fact that it can be obtained with waste heat especially puts a smile on my face.

I hope the gizmo will prove itself. I can hardly wait to pitch independence in both water and electricity to my City Council.

TCG

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Using Zapkitty’s figure of 233 tons of purified water per day from a 5 MW power plant, I did the math to calculate how many homes would that quantity serve in the area where I live.

Hereabouts, typical annual water usage is about four acre-feet per acre for typical residential use, inside the house and for landscaping — rainfall only is about one foot per year during winter, so we have to irrigate everything all the time. From these numbers the average house ( at five per acre ) would use 34,400 cu. ft. of water per year, or about 97 per day, about 800 pounds.

The figure of 233 tons per day times 2000 divided by 800 yields the number of houses which would have enough water, 580 in a community which has 7,500 houses. But wait! I have already calculated that it would take about a dozen 5MW plants to supply enough electricity for 7,500 houses, so 580 X 12 = 6960 homes.

Even considering that efficiencies would not be 100%, I am still mightily impressed with these numbers. It looks like the “waste” heat from power generation could supply at least half of our exorbitant water usage at absurdly low prices. The supply described above, coming from seawater, would be uninterruptable, and the means to secure the remainder of our water usage cheaply from the same source look very feasible.

TCG

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As a Southern California resident living at the end of the supply pipe, I currently pay $2.60 per unit (750 gallons), not counting meter fees. This works out to about $3,50 per 1000 gallons. Our cost is about average for this region, and several newer communities nearby pay at least 50% more. Every time we turn around, the price goes up. The figures cited by the Duke look very attractive to me. We have already built a reverse osmosis plant up the coast, but it was shut down because of the high cost of electricity. My town fronts on the Pacific Ocean, and desalinated water would be in unlimited supply, starting out being very competitively priced. We no longer would have to pray for heavy snowfall in the Sierras and the Rockies, nor fight with 50 million other people for the last drop in a shortage.

I say bring it!

TCG

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Duke Leto wrote:

If we were in a normal economy a lot of it would get consumed, but we’re in a depressed economy where everyone is trying to save. If you’re fighting against your mortgage on an underwater home the first thing you are going to do with a windfall of money is try and pay off that mortgage. That decreases your indebtedness. That decreases the overall quantity of indebtedness, which shrinks the money supply, which further depresses the entire economy. I was trying to make that clear but I didn’t do such a good job. We’re still reeling from the effects of the credit crisis in the US and may be for years to come.

The Duke’s point is certainly valid for a segment of the population, those with mortgage payments starting to crush them. In my experience, those people have already lost their homes or they will soon, and nothing can save them. The small, monthly savings on their electric bill would never do it.

Most of the people I know, young and old, have hunkered down, cutting their discretionary spending. No vacations, less eating out, forget the new HDTV. Contractors have to make their bids more competitive (less lucrative), pay cuts for many, less hours worked for others. Most of these are not worried about their mortgages, they are just treading water at this point, living on less income. Any increase in pocket change would be spent. I grew up with a generation of people who never did believe in “savings”. I doubt they would now.

The economic circumstances we find ourselves in may prove to be a relatively short term phenomenon, perhaps prolonged only by political motives. The benefit from cheaper electricity will be more long lasting and could open up countless possibilities for expansion of the economy. We would be limited only by our ingenuity.

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