[Rezwan]

Ivy Matt wrote: In my opinion, the main thing this situation has to do with nuclear fusion is that it’s a rather dramatic demonstration of what happens (and doesn’t happen) when you turn “off” a nuclear fission reactor, especially when the cooling system fails. One might be inclined to think that, because fusion requires ridiculously high temperatures (or kinetic energy of particles), that it’s even more dangerous than fission, and that a hypothetical fusion reactor will take longer to reach a safe state after shutdown than a fission reactor would.

Yes, do we have a description of what would happen to various fusion reactors upon shut down? Shutting down will simply stop the fusion, but it would be nice to have links to authoritative articles about this. Consider that many people have seen “Spider Man II” and that fusion mini-sun was growing out of control until doused by being submerged in water and Doc Ock’s redemptive sacrifice. A fun movie, but the misconceptions are out there.

This event could be a chance if it helps more people to comprehend phrases like “critical mass”, “fissile material”, and “chain reaction”, and to understand why they don’t apply to nuclear fusion.

Opportunities for education abound.

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Are you morsing me?

[Rezwan]

benf wrote: Maybe out of all of this the trend toward pragmatism will come back in vogue. Everyone is becoming educated to the relative risks of all of the energy technologies and fusion will look like another reasonable way out, including being profitable. I’m sure the Japanese people would much prefer the news to have gone like this: “Tsunami submerges fusion electric generator facilities. Electricity transmission went off line for a few hours. There has been no detectable radiation increase above normal background levels. Power has now been restored at the facilities to provide assistance and aid to the casualties of the Tsunami and in the cleanup…” “Fusion torches will be employed to salvage and reclaim the large numbers of destroyed ships, structures and transport vehicles to help contain the costs of the catastrophe…”

Thanks for the quotable visualization!

[Rezwan]

zapkitty wrote: Errrr…. you seem to be assuming that those threatened by the technology will be deterred by a masterful display of the facts which will also convince the honest skeptics.

What happens when instead they play to the worst fears of the anti-nukes and have them amplify those fears to the public with a half-billion dollar campaign against the radioactive poison-spewing monsters that those terrorist-enabling crazies want to install in every neighborhood and contaminate the houses for thousands of years?

The oligarchs don’t have too strong a connection to reality at best and are not shy about callously jettisoning it entirely where profits are involved.

Oh, I see, you want an area to persuade skeptics of the merits of aneutronic fusion, rather than a space for them to take shots. I was confused because I figured they will be able to take shots no matter what.

I think we have to get it to work first before worrying about skeptics. Also that those threatened by the technology won’t be able to do much fear amplification. Right now as noted elsewhere, pro fission forces will be going into overdrive to show how safe fission is becoming. If they’re successful, fusion can then be seen as a superior upgrade getting rid of any remaining vestiges of disreputability.

And ultimately the facts and growing experience will speak for themselves. Consumer demand trumps all.

[Rezwan]

Looks good to me!

Perhaps a box on the side with some links to info about fusion and space flight could be handy. Speaking of which, what are some definitive links to info on fusion and space flight?

[Rezwan]

zapkitty wrote: all will have the same basis as the skeptics seek to assure themselves that there are no hidden “gotchas”… that as aneutronic fusion advocates we aren’t giving the world the same bum rush that got the uranium fission plants rammed down our throats.

With the “emergency brake on”, I don’t think anything will be rammed down anyone’s throat. This has a while to unfold. Assuming funding stabilizes, then assuming the concept is proven, there’s still the engineering development phase, and throughout this time, as noted elsewhere, many industries will be feeling threatened and likely challenging the concept “with extreme prejudice.”

I think skeptics needs will be well taken care of.

The forum ziggurat used to have a “skeptics” section, which is now the “noise” area.

[Rezwan]

Henning wrote: Nuclear fission always has been enormously subsidised. In this subsidy the deconstruction and (safe) deposition of waste isn’t even included. Cost-calculations are way off.

True costs and comparisons are hard to come by. Per David MacKay – http://www.withouthotair.com :

Everyone says getting off fossil fuels is important, and we’re all encouraged to “make a difference,” but many of the things that allegedly make a difference don’t add up. …People get emotional (for example about wind farms or nuclear power) and no-one talks about numbers. Or if they do mention numbers, they select them to sound big, to make an impression, and to score points in arguments, rather than to aid thoughtful discussion. (MacKay, 2009)

The uncertainty factor with fusion makes it difficult to know the true cost. But people have done many bold things in the face of uncertainty.

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es ist ein Problem kollektiven Handelns in der Gegenwart

[Rezwan]

Michio Kaku compared the reactor core of the Fukushima Daiichi I plant to a car without brakes. Perhaps one could compare a fusion reactor to a car with its emergency brake always engaged.

Lol! (followed by gritting teeth)

Yes. Fusion has a ways to go. And we have a duty to do everything to make it happen. The erratic and pathetic funding to date is a big part of the problem. If there is a solution to be found, it will take commitment to find it.

[Rezwan]

Perhaps something unexpected like the Monsters Inc. metaphor could help in those screeching situations:

Helpful metaphors dept: The difference between fission and fusion is like the difference between children’s screams and laughter in the movie “Monster’s Inc.” Fission, like screams, is destructive and toxic, but releases a lot of energy. Fusion, like laughter, brings things together and releases much more energy.

Then again, if someone is in screech mode, it’s a lost cause.

[Rezwan]

Great stuff, thanks folks! Now if there was someone willing to come up with a way to explain them comparatively. A simple stat sheet for each. As you say, we don’t want to explain them fully, just direct people to the right place. What is the minimal information required.

My goal is an “Aneutronic Contender Template”
Think in terms of a “baseball card” or “racing car card”. If you were to give a kid a card that he could hold in his hand that would have all the key information. OK, front and back, since the front would be half picture.

And of course, the stats would link to the deeper info elsewhere.

[Rezwan]

Another category for the budget. To what extent is it important/useful to attend such meetings? How much should we allocate.

[Rezwan]

Yes! Great idea! I highly encourage it. Go forth!

[Rezwan]

Thanks for finding this, John!

This page is interesting: http://www.ct-si.org/events/EnergyInnovation/showcase/stats.html I didn’t see any Fusion – but “other” might cover it.

Too bad we missed it. But the list of attendees is a good resource. Once we get our plan together we can start shopping it around and make sure each of them gets it and registers an opinion.

[Rezwan]

Very cool. Must turn this into a regular web post. What would we file it under – contenders? Get involved? The Fusion Community? A person who does a fusion experiment is de facto part of the fusion community…

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They all look great!

Thanks!

Once again, the image that the above is riffing on is this.

[Rezwan]

Thanks for the clip idea!

Also – note three posters posted – vote on them here: https://focusfusion.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/825/

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