Homepage Forums Economic Forums Wealth of Nations, and Economics of Abundance

This topic contains 45 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Aeronaut 9 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 46 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #5872
    Avatar
    Phil’s Dad
    Member

    digh wrote: Climate change brings excess water where it’s not needed, ie. tsunamis,…

    Sorry, I couldn’t let that one go – only because I know you are better than this. Tsunamis are caused by tectonic plate movement. They have never and will never be caused by climate change. The trouble is if you say stuff like this often enough people start to believe it. Then the truth comes out and those same people get really annoyed. (See Climategate). The result is the rest of your argument gets devalued along side the, let’s call them, genuine mistakes.

    http://geology.com/articles/tsunami-geology.shtml

    #5874
    Avatar
    Brian H
    Member

    Phil’s Dad wrote:

    Climate change brings excess water where it’s not needed, ie. tsunamis,…

    Sorry, I couldn’t let that one go – only because I know you are better than this. Tsunamis are caused by tectonic plate movement. They have never and will never be caused by climate change. The trouble is if you say stuff like this often enough people start to believe it. Then the truth comes out and those same people get really annoyed. (See Climategate). The result is the rest of your argument gets devalued along side the, let’s call them, genuine mistakes.

    http://geology.com/articles/tsunami-geology.shtml
    Absolutely. A “tsunami” is not “excess water”, it’s just a bloody huge wave. After it passes, you’ve got the same water levels you had before some of it got restless and rearranged your furniture a bit. :cheese:

    Warming causes milder weather patterns and reduced air currents, because the temperature and heat-load spread between poles and tropics reduces. Cooling increases the spread and causes more dramatic gradients and flows and weather.

    Precisely the opposite of the Gore-Bull Warming story, of course. 😆

    #5876
    Breakable
    Breakable
    Keymaster

    Brian H wrote:
    Warming causes milder weather patterns and reduced air currents, because the temperature and heat-load spread between poles and tropics reduces. Cooling increases the spread and causes more dramatic gradients and flows and weather.

    Precisely the opposite of the Gore-Bull Warming story, of course. 😆

    Except that we are set up for global cooling because of the coming Ice age you mentioned.
    And there is nothing we can do because co2 absorption patterns are maxed out, like you mentioned.
    So basically we are ****ed up aren’t we?

    #5878
    Avatar
    Brian H
    Member

    Breakable wrote:

    Warming causes milder weather patterns and reduced air currents, because the temperature and heat-load spread between poles and tropics reduces. Cooling increases the spread and causes more dramatic gradients and flows and weather.

    Precisely the opposite of the Gore-Bull Warming story, of course. 😆

    Except that we are set up for global cooling because of the coming Ice age you mentioned.
    And there is nothing we can do because co2 absorption patterns are maxed out, like you mentioned.
    So basically we are ****ed up aren’t we?

    Yep; we’ll be subsidizing CO2 production, and spraying coal dust on the ice caps before we know it!

    #5880
    Avatar
    Aeronaut
    Member

    Aren’t we already subsidizing CO2 production by funding projects with long-term payoff projections instead of diligently seeking out alternatives? After all, it’s not like Eric and Aaron just arrived on the fusion scene and are still wet behind the ears. Can’t wait for the world’s collective gasp when we get readily repeatable, unquestionable unity and then follow it with rapid yield gains.

    #5889
    Breakable
    Breakable
    Keymaster
    #5892
    Avatar
    digh
    Member

    Hello Phil’s Dad,
    If I’m guilty of anything, it’s too much brevity. I shouldn’t have covered the totality of global warming potential effects in one short sentence…bound to lead to confusion. Your explanation of how tsunamis have been cuased by techtonic plate shift is fine, but your statement “tsunamis have never been caused by climate change” indiactes premature closure of inquiry. I don’t think many would rationally deny the melting of polar ice when there are massive changes in glaciers, the effects of which are pronounced.

    Techtonic plates are affected as a result of changes in isostasy/eustasy and post glacial rebound on glacial isostatic adjustment. This can have an effect on seismic activity(i.e.: volcanic activity, earthquakes and, yes…tsunamis). Granted all this is a worst case scenario, current thinking is that the impact takes place over a hundred years or more, but we can’t say with certainty, given the current rapid pace of deglaciation. We, hopefully, have time to change our energy infrastructure before we reach that point.

    Faulting, fracturing and seismicity

    Sea level and climate

    #5893
    Avatar
    Brian H
    Member

    Hm, superfluous brevity. The concept appeals!

    But the reeeely big tsus are gonna be caused by underwater slumps, of the lava shelves near Hawaii and the Canaries. They’ll slosh their entire ocean basins, big time. They’ve happened before, and the geological evidence is there if looked for.

    So we need massive international global governmental programs to eliminate human contributions to excessive lava buildup. Get your proposals in now, for consideration for early funding!

    #5895
    Avatar
    digh
    Member

    Well. I think I understand your position somewhat. Here goes (if I’m off I’m sure you’ll correct) There are geologic disasters no one can do anything about like the plate shiftts off Haiwaii and the Canaries you discuss. Yep, S..t Happens and sometimes the best we can do is good disaster recovery (not much in evidence at present).

    OK, but other potential disasters we can try to avoid. We might check man made global warming or monitor asteroids that could impact earth. We can take action, presumably we aren’t dinosaures.

    I’ve never heard anyone say “We just don’t have enough disasters!”

    #5896
    Avatar
    Brian H
    Member

    digh wrote: Well. I think I understand your position somewhat. Here goes (if I’m off I’m sure you’ll correct) There are geologic disasters no one can do anything about like the plate shiftts off Haiwaii and the Canaries you discuss. Yep, S..t Happens and sometimes the best we can do is good disaster recovery (not much in evidence at present).

    OK, but other potential disasters we can try to avoid. We might check man made global warming or monitor asteroids that could impact earth. We can take action, presumably we aren’t dinosaures.

    I’ve never heard anyone say “We just don’t have enough disasters!”

    Those are not plate shifts. They’re buildups of unstable rock above deep ocean slopes which periodically collapse, sending massive waves back and forth across the ocean.

    Checking man-made global warming is easy, since it doesn’t exist. Checking the efforts of NWO believers and plotters to leverage the mitigation programs into huge economic and political vehicles is the real challenge!

    Deflecting asteroids should be possible, especially with early detection. Even darkening one side soon enough causes selective sunlight “pressure” to change their paths.

    #5899
    Avatar
    digh
    Member

    Again I think I understand your position somewhat. I think you favor the breakup of the energy monopoly with FF distributed widely and locally. Absolutely! Also a return to an authentically competitive market place open to individual investment would be nice.

    Painting or covering the asteroids white to reflect sunlight, interesting. Haven’t heard that one before. You would probably have to cover the entire rock due to movement. Comets would be a different problem.

    If FF is harnessed to spaceflight that could be another area for privatisation.

    As to whether Global Warming is real or not, you seem adamant in denial. We will have to agree to disagree.

    #5900
    Avatar
    Phil’s Dad
    Member

    Greetings digh,

    digh wrote:
    Your explanation of how tsunamis have been cuased(sic) by techtonic plate shift is fine, but your statement “tsunamis have never been caused by climate change” indiactes(more sic) premature closure of inquiry.

    We will see. It may in fact be that my line of enquiry has reached and surpassed the point you have paused at here. Shall we both keep dighing and find out?

    I don’t think many would rationally deny the melting of polar ice when there are massive changes in glaciers, the effects of which are pronounced.

    The position I think you are taking (do please correct me if I am wrong in this) is that melting continues to the present day and has maybe even accelerated recently along with the much reported accelerated warming of the second half of the 20th century. You refer to it as “the rapid pace of deglaciation”.

    We are interested in land based ice of course, as water ice does not change the overall mass or distribution of mass when it melts. (Volume yes, mass no)

    The theory you propound, which had a resurgence of popularity in 2006 if my memory serves, certainly makes superficial sense.

    Techtonic plates are affected as a result of changes in isostasy/eustasy and post glacial rebound on glacial isostatic adjustment. This can have an effect on seismic activity(i.e.: volcanic activity, earthquakes and, yes…tsunamis).

    Now a few diagrams if I may. The first from the Global Volcanism Program and the last two from the National Earthquake Information Center of the U.S. Geological Survey(NEIC).

    They show something remarkable. Despite all that melting there has been no statistically significant increase in seismic activity (i.e.: volcanic activity, earthquakes and, yes…tsunamis). In fact the trend, if any, is downward.

    I note also that Earth Science professor John Clague at Simon Fraser University, a leading light in this area, said that even if the Greenland ice sheet melted, “plate motions… would continue, as they had prior to the melting.”

    Granted all this is a worst case scenario, current thinking is that the impact takes place over a hundred years or more, but we can’t say with certainty, given the current rapid pace of deglaciation.

    I think based on the evidence I would side here with “current thinking”. I am afraid I do not count a hundred year (or more) change in water levels a “tsunami”. Nor the 20,000 year increase (averaging 6.25mm/yr) given in your second reference.

    We, hopefully, have time to change our energy infrastructure..

    On this we agree.

    Thank you digh, for giving me pause to think.

    Attached files

    #5903
    Avatar
    Brian H
    Member

    digh wrote: Again I think I understand your position somewhat. I think you favor the breakup of the energy monopoly with FF distributed widely and locally. Absolutely! Also a return to an authentically competitive market place open to individual investment would be nice.

    Painting or covering the asteroids white to reflect sunlight, interesting. Haven’t heard that one before. You would probably have to cover the entire rock due to movement. Comets would be a different problem.

    If FF is harnessed to spaceflight that could be another area for privatisation.

    As to whether Global Warming is real or not, you seem adamant in denial. We will have to agree to disagree.

    Actually, the “painting” is likely to be blackening of one side to increase the impact/absorption of light. Depends on the specifics of the asteroid’s shape and orbit.

    There are designs for MHD and ion drives which FF could be used with, and provide superb power/weight ratios.

    Global Warming may well be occurring, at about the same rate that it has been since the Ice Sheets melted. But there is no modern deviation from that trend, and humans have immeasurably small impact on climate. That’s the crux.

    #5914
    Avatar
    Brian H
    Member

    Kinda OT, but here’s a fun new potential application for FoFu:
    http://www.profeng.com/archive/2009/2206/22060006.htm

    Attached files

    #5953
    Avatar
    Brian H
    Member

    As far as “wasteful” space-oriented initiatives like the elevator, Henning: shepherding 1 (ONE) 1-mile diameter nickel-iron asteroid into near-Earth orbit would make readily accessible (mostly pre-layered and sorted) precious metals equivalent to the total mined in all history from the planet’s crust. (Plus lotsa base metals, of course.) Approximate value, $1 million per capita. For the planet. Say, $6 quadrillion.

    P on the “ohdear, fix the problems down here first!” mantra. That kind of thinking is a form of digging harder to get out of a hole. Surplus wealth for everyone is a far better bet and plan.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 46 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.