Transition to DC

[Aeronaut]

Rematog wrote: Aeronaut,

Small nit to pick. Megawatts are a unit of power, which is a rate (like velocity), for 13 MW-hr is a measure of energy (like distance) and 13 MW/hr is a rate of change (like acceleration). Steam power plants have load change limits, typically around 5 MW/min change in output.

Yes, cheap electric power would be a god-send to the primary metals industry. Electro refinining, such as for copper, and as a sorce of heat for casting plants, etc.

Also, waste could be reduce using a plama arc furnace, turning it into fully oxidized gases and glass slag. So, so many things become possible and/or cheap if the power is cheap….

FF would be the next best thing to “Friendly Aliens” providing us with high tech……remember “To Serve Man”….(Twilight Zone episode, google it.)

I think I follow, Rematog. I included the timeframe as a rate of production for loading guesstimates so I don’t get greedy and think of that as power/second :shut:

When I was reviewing the block diagram this morning I got to wondering if we really want much of an output cap bank, since it sets us up in a DC only frame of reference when we can easily divide a 360hz trigger stream into (6) 60hz output pulse streams that would drive transformers, coils, etc.

Maybe 1 or 3 channels are dedicated to powering the next cycle, and the rest can be whatever each application’s loads require. IOW we can have our cake and eat it, too.

[Rematog]

Way over the head of a simple M.E.

[Brian H]

Rematog;
Actually, Damon Knight, 1951, novelette. A fine send-up of the socialist paradigm. The Cookbook Manifesto, by Karl Porkus? 😆 :cheese:

[Brian H]

Aeronaut wrote: …
When I was reviewing the block diagram this morning I got to wondering if we really want much of an output cap bank, since it sets us up in a DC only frame of reference when we can easily divide a 360hz trigger stream into (6) 60hz output pulse streams that would drive transformers, coils, etc.

Maybe 1 or 3 channels are dedicated to powering the next cycle, and the rest can be whatever each application’s loads require. IOW we can have our cake and eat it, too.

AFAIK, it’s 330Hz, not 360. Maybe that’s adjustable. Also, AFAIK, the next pulse is powered by 100% of the power from the solenoid-alpha-ion beam, and the usable energy comes from 40% or so “profit power” from the X-ray shell. If that makes any nevermind in circuitry terms. But it also implies that about 60/84ths, or almost 3/4, of total output must be fed back into the capacitor bank for the next shot.

[Aeronaut]

Brian H wrote:

…
When I was reviewing the block diagram this morning I got to wondering if we really want much of an output cap bank, since it sets us up in a DC only frame of reference when we can easily divide a 360hz trigger stream into (6) 60hz output pulse streams that would drive transformers, coils, etc.

Maybe 1 or 3 channels are dedicated to powering the next cycle, and the rest can be whatever each application’s loads require. IOW we can have our cake and eat it, too.

AFAIK, it’s 330Hz, not 360. Maybe that’s adjustable. Also, AFAIK, the next pulse is powered by 100% of the power from the solenoid-alpha-ion beam, and the usable energy comes from 40% or so “profit power” from the X-ray shell. If that makes any nevermind in circuitry terms. But it also implies that about 60/84ths, or almost 3/4, of total output must be fed back into the capacitor bank for the next shot.
Pulse frequency is a tradeoff between desired power output and electrode life, so I bumped it up to make an even multiple of 60 hz line current. Also, I’m understanding that we needed some of the recharge power coming from X-ray conversion. Not really sure what the percentages are, though.

[Brian H]

Aeronaut wrote:

…
When I was reviewing the block diagram this morning I got to wondering if we really want much of an output cap bank, since it sets us up in a DC only frame of reference when we can easily divide a 360hz trigger stream into (6) 60hz output pulse streams that would drive transformers, coils, etc.

Maybe 1 or 3 channels are dedicated to powering the next cycle, and the rest can be whatever each application’s loads require. IOW we can have our cake and eat it, too.

AFAIK, it’s 330Hz, not 360. Maybe that’s adjustable. Also, AFAIK, the next pulse is powered by 100% of the power from the solenoid-alpha-ion beam, and the usable energy comes from 40% or so “profit power” from the X-ray shell. If that makes any nevermind in circuitry terms. But it also implies that about 60/84ths, or almost 3/4, of total output must be fed back into the capacitor bank for the next shot.
Pulse frequency is a tradeoff between desired power output and electrode life, so I bumped it up to make an even multiple of 60 hz line current. Also, I’m understanding that we needed some of the recharge power coming from X-ray conversion. Not really sure what the percentages are, though.
My understanding was that 100% of the pulse current was needed to recharge the caps for the next shot, and there was about a 40% “profit” from the X-ray shell for use/sale/application.

[Aeronaut]

My understanding is similar, except that in addition to 100% of the solenoid’s output partially recharging the input caps, the balance of the power required for the next cycle would cut into the X-ray converter’s net profit output. Thus, it’s likely to be a long hard slog from unity to the first useful megawatt hour.

[Brian H]

Aeronaut wrote: My understanding is similar, except that in addition to 100% of the solenoid’s output partially recharging the input caps, the balance of the power required for the next cycle would cut into the X-ray converter’s net profit output. Thus, it’s likely to be a long hard slog from unity to the first useful megawatt hour.

I hadn’t seen any info that more than the solenoid’s output would be required. Where did you get that?

[Aeronaut]

Sorry, I couldn’t find it right off the top. I may be wrong in the context of a commercial machine. Hopefully I am, but I’m sure the engineering test model will be scratching and clawing to deliver enough power for repetitive pulsing from several iterations of the drift tube and X-ray converters.

[JimmyT]

Concerning the need to capture some of the x-rays. Watch Eric’s video. Particularly the question and answer part at the end.

The title of this thread suggests a discussion of converting the grid to DC. How about converting the grid to 3oo Hz?

[Aeronaut]

JimmyT wrote: Concerning the need to capture some of the x-rays. Watch Eric’s video. Particularly the question and answer part at the end.

The title of this thread suggests a discussion of converting the grid to DC. How about converting the grid to 3oo Hz?

I wouldn’t count on it in our lifetimes, Jimmy. The reason is the sheer number of 50 and 60hz AC motors built every day and electrical engineering documents built around those freqs. Besides, multiple outputs at those freqs may be more practical for industrial applications.

[Phil’s Dad]

Aeronaut wrote:

Concerning the need to capture some of the x-rays. Watch Eric’s video. Particularly the question and answer part at the end.

The title of this thread suggests a discussion of converting the grid to DC. How about converting the grid to 3oo Hz?

I wouldn’t count on it in our lifetimes, Jimmy. The reason is the sheer number of 50 and 60hz AC motors built every day and electrical engineering documents built around those freqs. Besides, multiple outputs at those freqs may be more practical for industrial applications.

Yep, 5phase 60hz or 6phase 50hz is the way to go – but my goodness that’s one heck of a distributor cap. :bug:

[Aeronaut]

Phil’s Dad wrote:

Concerning the need to capture some of the x-rays. Watch Eric’s video. Particularly the question and answer part at the end.

The title of this thread suggests a discussion of converting the grid to DC. How about converting the grid to 3oo Hz?

I wouldn’t count on it in our lifetimes, Jimmy. The reason is the sheer number of 50 and 60hz AC motors built every day and electrical engineering documents built around those freqs. Besides, multiple outputs at those freqs may be more practical for industrial applications.

Yep, 5phase 60hz or 6phase 50hz is the way to go – but my goodness that’s one heck of a distributor cap. :bug:

A 300hz base rate would work well in most of the world, but over here we’d do better with 360hz. The reason is that a 60hz sine wave’ zero crossings (0 volts, where it begins reversing polarity) occur at 120hz.

Now, the real beauty of solid-state ignition is that we can more precisely match output to load. The more predictable the load, the less we need fill-in/filter caps. From what I’ve seen of commercial distribution caps, they’re used for wave shaping.

Personally, I don’t see DC as a distribution format. The grid’s upgrade plan is based on doubling the voltage so they can halve the current. Since power (lost, in this case) = the square of the current times the resistance (impedance here), halving the current should quarter the energy lost in long distance transmission.

[Rematog]

High voltage also reducses the amount of conductor needed. Heavy industrial motors are often 4160 volts (our plant uses the less common 6,900V). This reduces the current (and hence temperature rise in windings) in not only the motor, but the copper conductors from the switchgear room to the motors.

For transmission, over 100 KV (100,000 volts) is not that high of voltage. Up to the mid 200 KV’s is normal.

[Henning]

High voltage DC is actually available, but seems to be more expensive.

See Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current

It’s mainly used for subsea cables.

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