Homepage Forums General Transition Issues Steel and CO2.

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  • #471
    AvatarTorulf
    Member

    The steel industry is a big source of CO2. Even if the energy use in this industry is replaced with a clean focus fusion a big part of the CO2 pollution reminds.
    Coal is used for reduction of the iron in ore. FeO2+CFe+CO2 The steel production must be increased greatly if the industrialisation of the third world will proceed. How to stop this CO2 source?
    One way is to use biomass carbon. This has been used before and has lead to severe deforestation. Tree plantings may be an alternative but it may compete with the paper industry and in worse case with the food production.
    Many years ago I reared an article about ore reduction with the plasma flame and sulphur acid. The method was terrible energy demanding. I think it was some experiments in Soviet or Poland. I do not remember the source. I have look after it on the internet and not find anything. Have anybody here hear something about it? It cloud be interesting to read about. I wonder there the oxygen in the ore will end up. Can this technology become useful if the energy is cheap?

    #2475
    AvatarTransmute
    Member

    Yes, I have head of it (look up microwave smelting). The reduction could be achieve with electrolysis or with plasma, yes they would be energy demanding but cheap fusion energy would make them economical. Many steel alloys require carbon in them so a source of carbon is needed. Biomass other then wood can be used, sustainable biomass.

    #2707
    AvatarJimmyT
    Participant

    Carbon isn’t the only reducing agent that can be used in the reaction to produce iron, and then steel, from iron ore. Hydrogen can do the same thing. And hydrogen can be readily produced anytime you have ample cheap electricty.

    #2796
    AvatarBrian H
    Member

    Transmute wrote: Yes, I have head of it (look up microwave smelting). The reduction could be achieve with electrolysis or with plasma, yes they would be energy demanding but cheap fusion energy would make them economical. Many steel alloys require carbon in them so a source of carbon is needed. Biomass other then wood can be used, sustainable biomass.

    There will be lots of spare coal for the purpose!

    And, Jimmy, carbon is actually part of the molecular structure of steel, no? It’s inclusion hardens and stabilizes the metal.

    #2803
    AvatarJimmyT
    Participant

    Brian,
    You’re right about the carbon in the steel. But, I thought the general thrust of the thread was all that nasty CO2 (aka plant food) produced during the reduction process. Reduction using hydrogen would avoid that. And that carbon within the steel wouldn’t end up as CO2. At least until all the steel rusts. Fluxing is always done using limestone which probably introduces enough carbon for the hardening process.

    And by the way, you and I do agree about the fallacy of the CO2/Global warming thing and about the primacy of the importance of focus fusion.

    As an aside; I wonder if ultra pure Fe might be produced using hydrogen reduction. Coal inevitability introduces so many impurities. It would be interesting to explore ultra pure iron’s properties. Probably already been done.

    #2806
    AvatarBrian H
    Member

    JimmyT wrote: Brian,
    You’re right about the carbon in the steel. But, I thought the general thrust of the thread was all that nasty CO2 (aka plant food) produced during the reduction process. Reduction using hydrogen would avoid that. And that carbon within the steel wouldn’t end up as CO2. At least until all the steel rusts. Fluxing is always done using limestone which probably introduces enough carbon for the hardening process.

    And by the way, you and I do agree about the fallacy of the CO2/Global warming thing and about the primacy of the importance of focus fusion.

    As an aside; I wonder if ultra pure Fe might be produced using hydrogen reduction. Coal inevitability introduces so many impurities. It would be interesting to explore ultra pure iron’s properties. Probably already been done.

    Yeah, purity is big. Hence “coking”, or roasting all the junk out of coal or charcoal.

    And I’ve read somewhere that very pure Fe cast in microgravity (orbit) is actually very hard, harder even than steel, because of the lack of inclusions in the “crystal” structure.

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