Plan B for Focus Fusion

[Transmute]

If you guys can’t get energy positive fusion up consider a Focus Fusion (F2) reactors in an Accelerator Driven Subcritical fission Reactor (ADSR). Fusing deuterium in a F2 will produce fast neutrons which can be used to induce fission in depleted uranium, thorium or nuclear waste. An F2 would be much smaller then a proton accelerator (and likewise probably much cheaper) and would likely require less energy to operate. ADSRs are melt down proof (by virtue of being able to turn off the accelerator/F2 to stop fission immediately) and can destroy radioactive waste. If you guys can prove fusion of deuterium (much easier then p+B11) with sufficient neutron production per cost or energy I/O then you should consider pushing a F2 reactor for ADSR: not only would it clean up existing stockpiles of spent nuclear waste but could provide much needed revenue for further research into full fusion energy.

[Torulf]

This is my thoughts of it.
The plan B would be the D+D reaction or in best case D+He3. It may be best to reduce availability of uranium and production of radioactive waste.
Plan C may be If only the D+T reaction can be made.
This can be used in some hybrid reactor. A new generation of accelerator driven nuclear fission reactors is developing. These reactors can use U238, Thorium and radioactive waste as flue. They are safe and produce little amount of waste. To replace the accelerator with a DT burning DPF can increase it

[Transmute]

I don’t see the anti-nuclear movement having much of an argument if the reactors are getting ride of nuclear waste.

[JimmyT]

Keep in mind that the radiation hazard is only one of the reasons for wanting to avoid neutron production. The energy from charged particles in a beam is easy to harvest. Any neutrons produced would carry away energy too. But the only way to harvest it would be by some sort of heat engine. Now if you are wanting to produce neutrons for some transmutation process, fine. But keep in mind you are going to sacrifice harvestable energy in the process.

[Matt M]

Could the escaping neutrons be used to generate electricity with the new radiation-to-electricity
nano materials?

[Transmute]

JimmyT wrote: Keep in mind that the radiation hazard is only one of the reasons for wanting to avoid neutron production. The energy from charged particles in a beam is easy to harvest. Any neutrons produced would carry away energy too. But the only way to harvest it would be by some sort of heat engine. Now if you are wanting to produce neutrons for some transmutation process, fine. But keep in mind you are going to sacrifice harvestable energy in the process.

nuclear reactors run fine on heat engines. Its a matter of energy multiplication: if you put in 1 unit of energy in and out comes only .5 units of energy out from fusion it going to be really hard to make that energy positive no matter how efficient the conversion process, but if the fusion reactions emits neutrons which cause nuclear fission in spend nuclear fuel then you can increase the energy return. Its called a subcritical reactor were the fuel in the reactor can’t maintain a chain reaction anymore from its own neutrons so a outside neutron source is provided, the neutrons produced by the fission help to supplement to neutron source but it never achieves criticality (hence subcritical reactor). Its safer then existing nuclear reactors, can run on more types of fuel and can actually consume nuclear waste, The only problem has been trying to make a reasonable sized high flux neutron source, at present particle accelerators are considered but their so god dam huge and expensive, what if a dense plasma focus the size of a tin can could do what a half mile long particle accelerator does?

[JimmyT]

I should have said “cheaply harvested energy”. Sure, neutron’s energy can be dissipated in some medium whose heat is then used to make steam to run a turbine to run a generator. But there goes your costs up to $1,000 per kw just like a conventional power plant. It defeats the economic advantages ofDPF to begin with. Again, like I said, unless you want to use the neutrons for transmutation.

[JimmyT]

Opps, Forgive me, Transmute, for not reading from the top post down in one setting. I forgot the train of thought. I mistakenly thought that this thread was advocating the use of DPF produced neutrons for these other uses even if it totally works as a power reactor. I understand the thread now. It seems reasonable now.

[Brian H]

** News Flash ** Check the news page! Breaking news, as of today! DISCOVER magazine is running a brief very favorable piece on FF. Eric promises follow-up info. “the broadest coverage we have had in the mass media and will helpfully open up new opportunities.”

Indeed!

[Transmute]

Here a report:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0401015
In the conclusion they specify the advantage of using a D+T or D+D neutron source.

[Axil]

Reference:

https://lasers.llnl.gov/missions/energy_for_the_future/life/

LIFE, an acronym for Laser Inertial Fusion-Fission Energy, is an advanced energy concept under development at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL). Based on physics and technology developed for the National Ignition Facility (NIF), LIFE has the potential to meet future worldwide energy needs in a safe, sustainable manner without carbon dioxide emissions.

The laser inertial fusion device that will be uses in this reactor produces 10e19 neutrons/second.

Your current device when fusing d-t produces 10e13 neutrons/second. If you increase the product of this pulse rate and any performance increase to 10e6, you are equal in performance to the inertial confinement laser. The size of your system is ideal for a fusor/reactor hybrid. If you can approach this neutron fluence level, this as well as other reactor hybrids configurations are feasible. Moderator, are you interested in exploring this alterative technology for your system?

[Brian H]

Axil wrote: Reference:

https://lasers.llnl.gov/missions/energy_for_the_future/life/

LIFE, an acronym for Laser Inertial Fusion-Fission Energy, is an advanced energy concept under development at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL). Based on physics and technology developed for the National Ignition Facility (NIF), LIFE has the potential to meet future worldwide energy needs in a safe, sustainable manner without carbon dioxide emissions.

The laser inertial fusion device that will be uses in this reactor produces 10e19 neutrons/second.

Your current device when fusing d-t produces 10e13 neutrons/second. If you increase the product of this pulse rate and any performance increase to 10e6, you are equal in performance to the inertial confinement laser. The size of your system is ideal for a fusor/reactor hybrid. If you can approach this neutron fluence level, this as well as other reactor hybrids configurations are feasible. Moderator, are you interested in exploring this alterative technology for your system?

Neutrons. Who needs ’em? Nasty, pushy, mutagenic things. Pure electrons in motion is much better. Ever hear of Focus Fusion?

Axil, if you want to talk to Eric you can reach him directly at elerner@igc.org .

[Axil]

Nuclear waste and weapons material is a major problem for the US as well as many other countries throughout the world. Since Yucca mountain is not a viable solution and in fact is dangerous and alternative solution is required.

The US has set aside 20 billon dollars for such a solution. LIFE is an attempt at such a solution and is among other approaches.

I think a fusor hybrid that is modeled on LIFE is the best approach to clean up the nuclear mess. It would be a disservice to humanity to let petty competition and a fear of the neutron deny the world of an elegant and effective way of nuclear waste disposal.

[Brian H]

Axil wrote: Nuclear waste and weapons material is a major problem for the US as well as many other countries throughout the world. Since Yucca mountain is not a viable solution and in fact is dangerous and alternative solution is required.

The US has set aside 20 billon dollars for such a solution. LIFE is an attempt at such a solution and is among other approaches.

I think a fusor hybrid that is modeled on LIFE is the best approach to clean up the nuclear mess. It would be a disservice to humanity to let petty competition and a fear of the neutron deny the world of an elegant and effective way of nuclear waste disposal.

Yes, you’re right, mostly. I was teasing, mostly.

Don’t know if you heard of the attempt of the region north of Chalk River nuclear research facility in Ontario, Canada to set up a permanent storage/disposal site in the Pre-Cambrian Shield, known to have remained stable for a billion-plus years. Didn’t fly, politically, though.

[AaronB]

Radioactive waste is a big problem, but I have a possible solution. I think we could install big accelerator tracks on the sides of Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta in Colombia. Then we take 500 lb. capsules of radioactive waste and shoot them into the sun. We could also shoot things into other parts of the solar system as the earth turns. It would be easy enought to do the timing, and a little bit of directional control while still in the atmosphere could do most of the course correcting. Each day, you could probably shoot 10,000 lbs. into the sun. That’s only 20 shots, which should be easy to do in 10 minutes. The technology is the same as the high speed roller coaster rides, only the track would be two miles in length. When it wasn’t shooting payloads into space, it could shoot people into the stratosphere on suborbital joyrides. Colombia could make a fortune getting rid of other countries’ waste, and get a booming tourist industry as well.

[Author]

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