Iran v. America plasma fusion race!

[Rezwan]

Thanks to Aaron for the note:

Well, I knew my homeboys had a DPF, but it looks like they’re flat out going for fusion! Rock on Iran:

رييس پژوهشكدهي فيزيك پلاسما و گداخت هستهيي با اشاره به ابلاغ طرح ملي گداخت هستهيي گفت: در چند ماه گذشته تحقيقات در پژوهشكده شتاب بيشتري گرفته به نحوي كه اخيرا موفق به ساخت دو نمونهي ايراني دستگاه هاي گداخت هسته يي پلاسماي كانوني به روش مدر و فيليپوف و همچنين دستگاه گداخت هستهيي به روش محصورسازي الكترواستاتيكي اينرسي شدهايم.

Which means, of course:

“The head of the plasma physics and nuclear fusion research institute, with reference to the national nuclear fusion plan said: In the past few months research at the institute has accelerated in such a fashion that we were recently able to build two iranian plasma focus nuclear fusion devices per the method of Mather and Filipov and likewise a nuclear fusion device per the method of inertial electrostatic confinement. “

An article from the Iranian Atomic Agency, on their nuclear plans. Sorry, it’s in Persian. Google can translate roughly for you.

So, the term for nuclear fusion plasma focus device is “دستگاه هاي گداخت هسته يي پلاسماي كانوني” – dastgAhe godAxte haste-i-e pelAsmAi-e kAnuni

And I like their word for confinement – mahsur means “beseiged” (synonyms: encircled, surrounded and the like)

Well, let’s hope in the spirit of cold war we can have a “billion degree focus fusion – who gets there first” war!

This is cool!

“Iranic” if they get fusion first : )

[Aeronaut]

That’s great if they pursue it to the degree that building a Mather and a Fillipov lab suggest. It gives them much needed credibility on the world stage and lends more credence to aneutronic fusion.

Interesting word for confinement. Sounds like ministry of information copy rather than ministry of science writing.

[AaronB]

To a certain extent, I hope Iran beats us to it. Maybe it will be the energy equivalent of Sputnik, and it will force our government (and specifically the DOE) to wake up and smell the fusion byproducts. I sent a bunch of information to Secretary Chu after his interview at Google where someone in the audience asked about Focus Fusion, and he didn’t have a clue about our work. Well, I have yet to hear back from them. Maybe now that Iran is in the race, with a lot more than a shoestring budget apparently, someone in this administration will take this project seriously. It’s amazing to me that Focus Fusion hasn’t been absorbed into the black-ops world already. We haven’t exactly been quiet about our results or ambitions. Really, is anyone else out there projecting breakeven by the end of this year? It astounds me that we have received so little coverage in the media. If we don’t get as much funding as the Iranians, they will probably surpass us fairly quickly. After all, a lot of our findings have been posted here for the world to see, and they could easily adopt and expand on them. Fortunately, LPP’s intellectual property is protected by the patent, so even if the Iranians do get there first, LPP will be able to cash in when sales are made in the covered markets. It’s just a shame that the US may lose its technological lead so quickly and carelessly.

Be that as it may, we’re still in this race with a significant lead and a first-rate team. Hopefully the attention and funding we need will now suddenly appear. There’s nothing like healthy competition to raise public interest and bring sponsors out of the woodwork. Who knows? Maybe FF-1 will soon have a “General Electric®” or “Powered by Intel®” sticker on the side. 🙂

[Aeronaut]

I have to disagree, Aaron, based on what actually had to happen before Parliament would listen seriously to what Churchill was telling them about Hitler’s book Mein Kampf. Sure hope I’m wrong, but America’s lost it’s edge because it has no effective leadership in business or politics. Only reactionary thinking in those places, and a general public that’s been taught to expect Washington to solve all of their problems.

[emmetb]

If Iran manages something like this the positive fall-out might serve to reconnect them back a little bit to the democratic world. Maybe it will help also to break somewhat the wave of islamofobia that is sweeping across Europe. I feel sick to my stomach to see the amount of xenofobic, reactionary BS that is poured out by my fellow countrymen on a daily basis. It seems to be everywhere, nowadays, this brainrot. One may overhear the most flagitious conversation in the train, or stumble accross the most venomous, misguided blogs, or, worse, have friends suddenly come out and say something so incredibly mutton-headed that it leaves you gasping for air. And of course, our politicians have not failed to pick up on this, either.

Seeing that something this positive can come from the muslim world might help to open their eyes. (I know, but hope springs eternal.)

[tcg]

I would like to wish the Iranians success in their work with focus fusion — they will be another contestant in the race and should surely liven things up. But I don’t hope they are first over the line. I recognize the “sputnik” effect may operate here, but there is another effect to consider.

Despite the fact that many Persian people live harmoniously in this country, we are not exactly on good terms with the Iranian government . Their possible successes with the DPF may result in a backwash condemnatory effect which we may regret. Remember how the Nazi’s condemnation of “Jewish (nuclear) physics” undermined their own efforts to make progress in this area. Xenophobes and coal industry lobbyists may be quick to brand the plasma focus as “Iranian physics” and set back progress in this country by several years.

However, what benefit for DPF research (the American variety) can we find here? I see the Iranian presence in this area potentially good for fundraising. Just whisper, “You don’t want THEM to beat us, do you?” into a few Sentators’ ears and see what happens.

[Rezwan]

Aeronaut wrote: Interesting word for confinement. Sounds like ministry of information copy rather than ministry of science writing.

Well, “mahsur” is an all purpose word. That’s the primary translation. Beseige seems apt for laser ignition fusion. “surround (a place) with armed forces in order to capture it or force its surrender;” That’s what the lasers are doing.

“confinement” isn’t so great. Synonyms include “imprisonment, internment, incarceration, custody, captivity, detention, restraint; house arrest.”

By the way, one of my favorite Bible verses is: Deuteronomy 20:19

Are the trees of the field people, that you should besiege them?

Earth Firsters should have this verse somewhere in their slogans. PEOPLE are for beseiging. Not trees. The Lord knows how to ask a rhetorical question! If you answer “yes”, that grants trees and people equal status, and if you answer “no”, those trees get protected status. Amen.

[Rezwan]

I don’t know how vested their interest in fusion is – if they succeed, they erode their excuse to pursue fission. If they are pursuing fission because they really want arms, the fusion project is a conflict of interest. It may succumb to internal conflicts. Iranian nuclear scientists do tend to be “accident prone.”

I have to confess that when I was in Iran, I proposed the DPF to the folks at the university there, and wrote something up about it. I pitched a “fusion prize” that they should fund, like the Xprize.

Policy Proposal:

For the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran to establish a new Global science and technology prize:
The IRI Alternative Fusion Challenge

IRI = Islamic Republic of Iran.

Eric, if you recall, I cc’d you on the proposal. This was back in Sept. 2007. The professor I gave it to (because he had connections in the energy ministry) said he handed it along to his connections.

I’d like to think that this had some influence on the process, because that would mean they have some far sighted people there. In the proposal I said:

Arguments supporting the proposal
Political Benefits
• Announcing the Fusion Prize will show Iran to be a truly visionary nation that is taking a leadership role in pursuing energy alternatives for the good of all mankind.
• It lends credibility to Iran’s “we need more energy” argument.
• It shows that Iran is more progressive in its pursuit of nuclear alternatives than western nations.
• It creates a compelling condition that western nations need to meet before criticizing Iran’s fission program – they have to materially address the concept of nuclear fusion alternatives. Currently, their spending on such alternatives is infinitesimal compared to any other energy alternatives. Most officials aren’t even familiar with the concepts.

Scientific Benefits:
• Ideally, this challenge will kick off an “alternative fusion race.”
• It may result in the development of a commercially viable nuclear fusion reactor.
• At the least, it will draw attention to fusion alternatives, raising expectations and improving the investment climate for research.
• Even if a viable reactor is not feasible, advancements in science will be made.
• This prize addresses the “brain drain” factor, both internally and externally.
– Internally: Researchers in Iran will be directly encouraged.
– Externally: Iran will stimulate and leverage brainpower worldwide.

Social, Economic, Environmental Benefits
• If a winner for the challenge is found, the world will enter a golden age of fusion.

Arguments opposing the proposal
• Administration cost and complexity, and funding the prize money. In the event a winner is found, $25 Million is owed. There are ways to fund this prize which may end up costing considerably less.
• Furnishing the prize doesn’t give Iran any intellectual property rights in the inventions. For that, Iran needs to directly fund specific research projects in advance.
• The Downside of Success – The world may enter a golden age of fusion. This is great news! Except it requires a complex transition phase that needs to be managed. It also means nuclear fission will be phased out worldwide.

Of course, back then, I didn’t realize Iran had DPFs. But after giving him the proposal, the prof said to me:

Salam
I had a discussion on same item with some of my colleques in dept.
It seems that some research is in progress in some of these fields in iran so we should clarify exactly the technical scop of prize first.
it will take some time from me to finalize it.
Unfortunately, I am goin to Mecca (Haj tamato ) next month
So I am not sure till wich level I can push the subject. But be sure that I will do my Best (inshalla !!
yours

When he came back he said no go on the proposal. And there that rested.

Afterwards, I spoke to a few Iranians researching the DPF. They weren’t using it for fusion at the time. But they have been following our project. And now…

Looks like they skipped past the whole “prize” idea and went straight to “directly funding specific research projects.” Mashallah!

Again, don’t know if my “fusion prize” proposal had anything to do with this current pursuit, but I’d love to rub my hands together in nefarious glee at the thought that FFS/LPP had some influence in kicking off a fusion race. Very handy thing to kick off. Nothing like a nemesis to engage that fabulous competitive drive.

Bonus: It opens up some interesting transformative possibilities. Political fusion as well as particle fusion. Light instead of fire. Other ways of being. Alternative outcomes.

[tcg]

It is pretty well known that Iran’s oil reserves are at or past peak production, and they are looking forward to a time when they will loose this resource. Their interest in nuclear fission was understandable if slightly suspicious because they would soon need some an alternate means to generate electricity. Rezwan’s presentation of their fusion effort brings a new angle to this discussion. If they want electricity and will forgo bombs, then they may be heading in the right direction. A DPF installation cannot present the same threat to nearby, nervous neighbors (name starts with an “I”) that a fission installation could.

[vansig]

tcg wrote: If they want electricity and will forgo bombs, then they may be heading in the right direction. A DPF installation cannot present the same threat to nearby, nervous neighbors (name starts with an “I”) that a fission installation could.

I’ve already heard, today, the objection
“BUT they’re going to make H-bombs!”

which is NIMBY-speak for, “I have no idea what this means”.

time to educate the masses, folks.

[Warwick]

AaronB wrote: It astounds me that we have received so little coverage in the media.

That is because there are a lot of dodgy things such as e-cat, and without sufficient knowledge, media judgements may be based on ‘does it sound too good?’. Besides, they don’t get much advantage from covering something ahead of time, unfortunately all they want is to pip someone else to it at the last minute.

tcg wrote: Their interest in nuclear fission was understandable if slightly suspicious because they would soon need some an alternate means to generate electricity. Rezwan’s presentation of their fusion effort brings a new angle to this discussion. If they want electricity and will forgo bombs, then they may be heading in the right direction. A DPF installation cannot present the same threat to nearby, nervous neighbors (name starts with an “I”) that a fission installation could.

Their interest in nuclear fission is understandable because their neighbour got invaded less than a decade ago, despite posing no obvious threat to any other country, and it is common knowledge that they in Iran were slated to be next. Countries with nukes don’t usually get invaded, think North Korea. Notwithstanding Ahmedinajad’s unpleasant rhetoric, or the anti-Semitic/nationalistic politics that he uses to keep the masses on side against all those democracy-craving liberal middle classes, the bona fide situation is that the US (with the UK) has given the Iranian govt obvious reasons to want to be nuclear.

And of course fission generation has always been a superficial cover for getting nukes. But Thatcher leaned on that at a time when North Sea oil was massively expanding and the UK was massively invested in coal production, so I don’t think it’s an argument that has to depend a lot on the situation.

Rezwan wrote: Thanks to Aaron for the note:

Well, I knew my homeboys had a DPF, but it looks like they’re flat out going for fusion! Rock on Iran:

رييس پژوهشكدهي فيزيك پلاسما و گداخت هستهيي با اشاره به ابلاغ طرح ملي گداخت هستهيي گفت: در چند ماه گذشته تحقيقات در پژوهشكده شتاب بيشتري گرفته به نحوي كه اخيرا موفق به ساخت دو نمونهي ايراني دستگاه هاي گداخت هسته يي پلاسماي كانوني به روش مدر و فيليپوف و همچنين دستگاه گداخت هستهيي به روش محصورسازي الكترواستاتيكي اينرسي شدهايم.

Which means, of course:

“The head of the plasma physics and nuclear fusion research institute, with reference to the national nuclear fusion plan said: In the past few months research at the institute has accelerated in such a fashion that we were recently able to build two iranian plasma focus nuclear fusion devices per the method of Mather and Filipov and likewise a nuclear fusion device per the method of inertial electrostatic confinement. “

…

“Iranic” if they get fusion first : )

Yes, irony indeed. Let’s hope no one bumps off the people doing it. At least LPP don’t have to fear for their lives for the time being, until the big boys feel threatened. (Maybe it’s a good thing there’s little coverage!)

[annodomini2]

Warwick wrote:
At least LPP don’t have to fear for their lives for the time being, until the big boys feel threatened. (Maybe it’s a good thing there’s little coverage!)

‘Quiet’ black helicopter hovering over your current location? 😉

[vansig]

annodomini2 wrote:

At least LPP don’t have to fear for their lives for the time being, until the big boys feel threatened. (Maybe it’s a good thing there’s little coverage!)

‘Quiet’ black helicopter hovering over your current location? 😉

i guess you’re not a somebody until you have a predator drone after you.

🙂

[Warwick]

vansig wrote:

At least LPP don’t have to fear for their lives for the time being, until the big boys feel threatened. (Maybe it’s a good thing there’s little coverage!)

‘Quiet’ black helicopter hovering over your current location? 😉

i guess you’re not a somebody until you have a predator drone after you.

🙂

I was thinking more along the lines of corporate espionage by blue chips. They may have taken over government to the point of being handed billions in corporate welfare, but commandeering military assassination squads sounds improbable. More likely an ex-con or ex-merc with no idea whom they are really working for and not asking too many questions. If I was about to threaten the likes of RWE or PG&E, I’d be hiring that security firm with the navy seals.

[Author]

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