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  • #545
    willit
    Participant

    concentrating on the whole end result:
    1. confine a gas in plasma form(electrons stripped away) and crush the neculeus togather
    2. fuse enough gas to expel more energy than it takes to confine the gas.
    3. collect enough energy to start another cycle.
    4. collect extra energy sell to the public cheaply make millions and retire ritch.

    so first things first.

    1. it seems to me that if the plasmoid is several microns in dia that gas neculi which is much smaller could escape through the gaps between flux strands.
    it also seems that creating a birdcage for a very small bird requires a fine mesh cage….. by adding more outer electrodes would more lines of flux would be created ? the second thought was to install spral grooves on the inner anode or spiral the outer electrodes or both to add pre twist to the plasmoid. not that it would have any rotational inertia but could change the shape of the plasmoid causing a volumetric shape difference or pinched ends. does the inner anode have to be a solid cylinder with a squared end or would another configuration improve plasmoid volume(pin,post, cup,dish,ect). would pre exciting the gas at the center of the plasmoid area help in formation of a large volume plasmoid or at least pre strip the gas

    2. the other function of the plasmoid as i see it is to contain neculi and keep electrons from reconnecting to them while they coaless. being that the neculi are very sparce inside this small cage, the cage should collapse with enough speed to get it all togather in short order. i understand that a short lived equalibrium is reached as fusion is taking place as energy is expelled and presses out on the plasmoid. should the plasmoid be forced to collapse? would slowing down the collapse of the plasmoid allow more time for fusion?
    being that the plasmoid is in the shape of an elongated donut, do the ends need to be closed to help contain the neculi ? sounds like a jelly filled maple bar.
    does the shape of the anode face have a large impact on plasmoid form or lifespan.

    3 since about 40% of input energy is expelled as x ray energy , other than the onion method are there variations of microwave type antennas that could do a direct conversion back to volt/amp or could the capacitor bank act as an absorbtion device/ capacitor.

    4. the last step seems quite easy with the system ( when operating) looks somthing like a pulsating battery that could be smoothed out and formed to ac using “current” technology.

    all in all it seems like a rather simple device to construct. however having all of the materials in the correct shape in the right place at the right time at the right temperature seems to be the sticky details.

    it also seems to function like one of those old fashioned 4 stroke engines “suck squeeze bang blow.” but cleaner. what a world we live in.

    #3218
    JimmyT
    Participant

    Your analogy is not exactly correct. The bird cage is empty. The plasma is all contained in the wires making up the birdcage. Or otherwise stated, the wires are the plasma. The birdcage is rotating rapidly and shrinks. Also more of a doughnut than a birdcage, as you correctly stated. The plasma strands are continuous through the doughnut hole.

    Mr Lerner do the the strands (or filaments) themselves continue to shrink in diameter too?

    I think they do. Crushing the mixture causing fusion.

    I like your analogy to the 4 stroke engine. It is one of the most successful inventions of all time and is not at all a steady state device.

    I’m not sure I would characterize them as old fashioned though. They continue to provide the vast majority of our mobile power needs. Mixed blessing, I know. They also account for the vast majority of our petroleum dependence.

    #3284
    willit
    Participant

    the birdcage is not empty at all. It should be full of ions whose electrons have been stripped away. noting that the result is a hot plasma gas which in turn has even more rarefied particles. as the birdcage collapses it should trap those ions and have enough crushing force to overcome the repulsive force of the ions themselves. this can be done with electrostatic confinement as demonstrated by Farnsworth and Brussard experiments. there is even a utube demo of the boyscout plasma device. so we can see that the repulsive force of the ions can be overcome. this device ” plasma focus” is novel in that it is directing the fused ions at insane speeds into a decelerator by which power is generated at that point. kind of a solid state generator. it does not rely on heating water to steam to run turbines to turn shafts to run generators to produce power and add another form of pollution . “thermal pollution.”
    In the evolution of any machine scaling of components often creates new challenges. even Brussard had difficulties getting the successes that he did. several ah-ha moments and Epiphanies later it seems that they are working on some exciting science.
    Focus Fusion deserves the same commitment as the science is there and the approach simplistic as can be. smaller parts and lower power input requirements will make it less expensive to build and make it easier to get to the break even point. getting lean on input power requires smaller power supplies, smaller conductors, which is less expensive to get . we will only know how lean the we can get once we know how big the plasmoid must be to hold enough fuel to get out an appreciable amount of energy to 1 repeat the process and harvest the excess energy. in other words drive it until you break something , make it better then repeat. it all takes time, money, thought, talent, understanding,drive,ambition. without them any project is lost.

    #3288
    JimmyT
    Participant

    Whatever. You obviously have a much better understanding of this process than I do.

    #3294
    willit
    Participant

    I’m learning more every day. exciting stuff……….for a gearhead like me. never stop learning. don’t get discouraged. and never give up. :wow:

    #3295
    benf
    Participant

    Speaking of problems of confinement, or containment, I came across this item from MIT. They have found a method of using high frequency radio waves to “direct” plasma. They are applying it to a tokamak design, however I wonder if it could be utilized in the Focus model. I picture it acting like noise canceling headphones (this may be a stretch!). I don’t have all the details of this research. Can radio waves be tailored to de-energize electrons or x-rays and their heat transfer. Could a burst of radio waves during the pulse phase of Focus limit the radiation and help focus the fusion? Is it the X-rays that are producing all the heat out to the containment? How much degradation of the containment from heat is there, long term? Here’s the link to the artilce: http://www.physorg.com/news147528679.html

    #3296
    JimmyT
    Participant

    willit wrote: I’m learning more every day. exciting stuff……….for a gearhead like me. never stop learning. don’t get discouraged. and never give up. :wow:

    Have you watched Eric’s on line video? Or watched the animations which describe the process? I went thru Eric’s calculations a couple of times before I understood where he got all his numbers, and the meaning of all his graphs.

    #3297
    willit
    Participant

    yes seems like good calculations. there is a lot of other sites that contain the same calculations but with lower numbers (tokomak) they are bumping their head against multiple problems except funding.
    as far as focus goes it seems that they have the temperatures needed to expose the neuclius but conquering that cooling effect of x-rays will be an achievement. my whole point in the (birdcage) was to look at the field lines of the plasmoid itself. in particular the spacing between them and if it was narrow enough to keep ions from slipping between. the other question was the ends of the plasmoid and if that too would allow ions to escape.
    temperature, confinement time and ion density are all key components of the fusion process as far as i understand.
    keep up hope it seems that things are starting to roll again. hats off to the focus team.

    #3298
    benf
    Participant

    “Actually, preliminary calculations indicate the background plasma, the plasma in the whole vacuum chamber, will cool to something like 2,000 to 3,000 C between pulses. It just has to be hot enough to the boron will not precipitate out, which is a very complicated question of chemistry and dynamics. The electrodes propbaly have to be kept below 800 C to prevent rapid erosion.”

    It seems some of my questions were already answered in this previous post by Eric Lerner, thanks…Alas, I’m not in physics or an engineer, but I do yearn to fix things that don’t perform quite right and will search far and wide for solutions. The physics of the bird cage formed by the momentum of plasma by a channelled magnetic field into a knot which then collapses or pinches, conjures a visual flood in my brain. In a bathtub drain or a tornado it’s the pressure difference between surrounding medium, angular momentum and the inside pressure that causes contraction into an accelerating vortex. How fast a spin you can get determines the concentration of energy. The bird cage analogy implies a fixed container whereas what we need is more motion and increased pressure gradients. The earth has magnetic field “lines” that are somewhat fixed to the poles because of the fixed rotation of the earth. But the energy accelerates at the poles and the fields get more confined, thus ions from solar storms accelerate to the poles when captured. I look for analogies like these in nature or other experiments I read about on the web, to try and grasp what’s going on with Focus Fusion. Indeed there’s a lot to learn, consider, explore. This is all very interesting and I’m glad there’s more funding coming to move things along. Can’t wait to see the results!

    #3306
    Brian H
    Participant

    willit wrote:

    keep up hope it seems that things are starting to roll again. hats off to the focus team.

    Yes, funding at last! http://lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com/index.php?pr=News
    https://focusfusion.org/index.php/site/article/lpp_receives_major_investments_initiates_experimental_project/

    10 years from now the planet could be transformed. Unless the US succeeds in its current effort to commit political-cultural-economic suicide.

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