Off Topic – What's Rezwan's view on Iran

[Duke Leto]

I’m kinda worried about the people inside Iran, and I was wondering what Rezwan is aware of, since she’s alluded to the fact that she’s watching events there closely and she’s a bit closer to the ground at least in terms of cultural background and family contacts.

So what’s happening? Are we looking at the 2nd Revolution or is this just, as Stephen Rea said in V for Vendetta, going to be another case of what usually happens when people without guns stand up to people with guns?

[Rezwan]

Hi Duke,

You realize you’re asking me to analyze the present, as if being on the ground gives me better perspective, and to then project the future. These things are beyond my abilities. I disclaim this at length in my blog: http://www.planiran.com/index.php/site/article/unpredictable/

And I twitter, too. http://twitter.com/planiran

I teach at the university here in Shiraz, innocuous things like English language and environmental science for planners. Still trying to forumulate a strategy to bring about something constructive like an effective civil rights movement out of all this, without being labeled a zionist american spy (I’m 1/2 American, and Mom’s born again, so, clearly, if arrested, the case is slam dunk). Although, for the record, I am not a zionist american spy.

I am a human being.

But I don’t think it’s people with guns vs. without. There are guns all around here. Thriving black market. This is Iran! Be real! The caution comes more from what Khamenei warned about in his Friday sermon. “Take a look at our neighbors and all their chaos.” That was a “bad cop” reminder. e.g., if these young upstarts try to destabilize the regime, they won’t be able to establish anything stable in its place. Because a lot of people feel very strongly on all sides. (And the crowd at the prayers went wild! Chanting the litany that includes death to america, death to israel. Death, death, death.)

This country needs to hold together. And it (especially the govt., but also people in general) needs to develop the skill and discipline to have civil conversations (dude, “death to…????”). As it is, things are very reactionary, and developing this aptitude will take some…miracle.

Six impossible things before breakfast. No problem.

[Rezwan]

But I am optimistic about the direction things are going. Initial establishment reaction is to blame foreigners for instigating all of this unrest. Trying to distance this from “true Iranians” – externalize it. Parading people on TV that say exactly this. Arrested protesters confessing to being recruited by America or Israel. [Do it to Julia!] [And tu quoque argument here, with Gitmo in it’s back pocket, US is in no position to criticize prisoner handling here. Squandered moral authority. When states feel threatened…states will be states].

That “foreigners are behind this” refrain is a strong and convincing one. We all remember ’53. I wasn’t even born, and I’m deeply paranoid about foreign interests. Before twitter, this country has a history of social media and mass movements (’53, ’79). It all spiraled out of control and didn’t lead to a fully engaged and open society with informational checks and balances…

1st move, blame foreigners. But the unrest is so widespread that it’s pretty clear to everyone this is homegrown, spontaneous, and not externally orchestrated (well, OK, I’m sure there’s some external input, nefarious UK!).

Denial is not going to work here. Eventually establishment will have to sit down and listen. The strategy of trying to just shut up the chatter and pump out propaganda* won’t work this time. (*well, “news”, but even if it’s true, credibility is shot and people are labeling it propaganda – except the choir, of course)

Better to co-opt, I always say. Trying to get Snyder’s “Nation of Cowards” translated into Farsi. You can have a fully outspoken society, fully armed, and still get away with murder and squander gazillions of taxpayer dollars when you’re in government. Just look at America! It’s brilliant! Happy people, working hard, innovating, creating wealth and ingenious solutions to problems. You tax them, and use the proceeds to play your games around the world! They go out and protest, and you just laugh all the way to the bank or to the bombing run on Iraq or whatever.

Well, that’s one pitch. These guys are really not seeing the possibilities of a free society. It’s win win.

Whoa, cynicism.

Like I said, I have no idea what’s happening/will happen.

[Duke Leto]

Ooh! For some reason I thought you were still in Berkeley! Take care of yourself.

[Glenn Millam]

For those who are unaware, or would like better clarification about what Rezwan refers to as “’53,” a good book to read is Legacy of Ashes by Tim Weiner. It, among other things, tells the full story of the CIA’s orchestrated overthrow of a democratically elected government in Iran. It is a lso a great book for understanding just how screwed up that organization has been over its history, and how its mandate has been abused my numerous US administrations.

The one thing to remember about all this is that most of these really bad decisions were made by people trying to lead the US through the Cold War. Their minds were filled with Alger Hiss, the spy campaign in the Manhattan project, communist threats, communist infiltration into our government (imagined and otherwise), and the sense that things were spinning out of control towards communist enslavement and forced atheism, or nuclear holocaust. I believe this caused a great amount of paranoia in the US, and this mental disease became infectious, with the US government doing things that it otherwise wouldn’t consider, and by the injury to others turning otherwise stable, peaceful countries and cultures into paranoid, introverted ones. Iran’s current stance towards the west comes from this injury, and it, in my opinion, suffers from the mental disease began in the Cold War by the tension between the Soviet Union and the West. It is a disease we stopped suffering from in the early ’90’s but Iran still has it. And Iran isn’t alone.

I am hoping President Obama’s current approach will begin to ease the paranoia and start allowing the leadership and people in Iran and other countries to think more clearly, and perhaps begin to trust again. We need to heal from the wounds of the Cold War.

[Duke Leto]

You really think the US has gotten over Cold Warrior paranoia? Try suggesting a little louder that Obama is anything other than a Marxist puppet in this forum and wait for the Libertarian Peanut Gallery to chime in. (Not I should note the admins.)

[Rezwan]

Thanks, Glenn. That’s about the long and short of it. Not sure if I buy the cold war paranoia excuse. But I don’t like to get into political discussions myself. Rather, I like to set up platforms for other people to discuss things freely. Such as my handy US Foreign Policy Museum proposal. That would be the place to work out those ideas.

Yes, I like like to set up platforms for others to discuss politics, although it annoys me when they conduct ad hominem attacks on people, such as by reducing everything to a phrase like “marxist puppet”…and then dismissing everything that might oppose such an idea as evil zionist – I mean “libertarian peanut gallery” or what have you.

Just seems childish. And it’s very much like what the government here does. Shuts up discussion of pros and cons of various policies by reducing opposition to “godless heathen zionist puppets” or what have you. Not very subtle.

A bit more about Iran: http://niacblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/iran-updates-july-8/ and, yes, I agree Obama and the white house gang don’t need to bother spending taxpayer money on this:

House trying to reinstate Iran “regime change” fund – Under the Bush administration, Congress appropriated up to $75 million–under the guise of “democracy assistance”–for regime change in Iran. The money, some of which went to legitimate democracy organizations, played right into the hands of the hardliners in Iran who used it as justification for clamping down on all types of activism. Even worse, the existence of the program tainted any and all civil society activists in Iran as “agents of the West” and effectively painted a target on their backs. Ultimately, the overwhelming message that civil society activists in Iran sent to the US was: if you want to help us, stop sending us money.
But just now, as the House gets ready to consider the 2010 State Department and Foreign Operations Appropriations bill, members of Congress are proposing amendments that will reinstate the regime change slush fund.

So, yeah. Put the money to better use by designing a museum of foreign policy, take all the skeletons out of the closet, atone for your past sins, and then…well, things might look a bit different. We’ll talk then.

Anyway, I’m under scrutiny right now. This isn’t paranoia. It’s been made clear to me. This here is, of course, a public website. So, pre-emptive strike. I’m on the record here. This is an attempt to make it clear I’m not a “zionist cia puppet” by stating my policy on America clearly. And that policy is that America would be well served by kick starting this foreign policy museum as a venue for peace and reconciliation.

Yes, pretty whimsical policy. I’m a flawed individual, entitled to my idiosyncratic, naive ideas, exercising free speech. The theory behind this whimsy is, first of all, America needs some good karma. It does need to atone. That’s just self evident. The truth will set you free. Second, if your goal is an Iran that can handle free speech and all the obnoxious human activity that entails (e.g., ubiquitous, unstoppable ad hominem attacks in every venue, spam, and other delights), if your goal is a government that owns up to its mistakes and atones (AH! Tears come to my eyes), then you need to approach this by example. Take away IRI’s justification for oppressing its own people. Bring this conversation to the level of actual conversation, rather than shady, destabilizing, tortuous, underhanded, double-standarded methodologies. Practice what you preach. Live the ideals!

And by “you” I mean…whatever. You know who you are. Sometimes you is me. We is us.

PS, this is the 18th anniversary of the student uprising of…18 years ago. The one that was squashed. Just outside, a car drove by, stereo blasting, youths yelling out the window. For a second I felt I was in a college town near a bar. Who knows what’s really going down. Tomorrow is another day.

[Duke Leto]

Just to be clear, Rezwan, I have tried to engage the cabal of posters who I characterize as the “Libertarian Peanut Gallery” in a productive way regarding their denial of Global Warming, support for the US occupation of Iraq and vehement opposition to anything Obama so much as proposes. It has not been a useful endeavor. Their worldview does not encompass any possibility of any government policy but Laizzez Faire. To them, Tax Cuts are the One True God and Reagan is their Prophet. In order to have the slightest possibility of a useful dialogue I’d have to spend hours deconstructing their preconceptions and political prejudices and frankly, even I have better things to do!

If I were a pure layman of a liberal persuasion looking over these boards without knowing much about Eric or Aaron, I’d assume that FF was scientifically unsound because it appeals to people like the posters I am attacking. That FF was just a pseudoscientific pipe dream like abiotic petroleum. If I were a pure layman and I was not familiar with Eric’s background.

If you are, as you say, under scrutiny for having been educated in the US, for god’s sake stop posting in this thread! I feel bad enough for having exposed you to closer scrutiny by sounding you out while you are in Iran.

[Rezwan]

Hi Duke, I hear you. See how difficult this free speech thing is, even in the land of the free? How in order to have a free society, you end up suffering a lot of opinions that seem counterproductive and downright annoying? That seem to take up a lot of time and go nowhere? I’m reading this cool book right now: The Future of the Internet (And how to stop it) Talks about this phenomenon in terms of the tradeoff between generativity and mischief (virusus, spam, spyware, etc.)

These issues are everywhere. I think it comes down to what Rose Wilder Lane said – that the driving force for people is to control the energy of other people, by controlling their beliefs. We all have that urge. Hence the tendency to get shrill and act like our view is the only right one, or what not. Takes a lot of discipline to keep a conversation constructive. But also, every now and then you have to realize you may be wrong. Perhaps Reagan IS a prophet. “Well…”

Duke Leto wrote: If you are, as you say, under scrutiny for having been educated in the US, for god’s sake stop posting in this thread! I feel bad enough for having exposed you to closer scrutiny by sounding you out while you are in Iran.

Oh, too late for that. Cats out of the bag. I have that other website, and I twitter. The issue here is that the government has been equating opposing views with foreign regime change plots. I’m just trying to clarify that that’s not what I’m about. Public forums are just the place to do that.

No. I’m not about regime change and superimposing western style government here, establishing a new puppet. Rather, I’m all about organic, home grown transformation, free speech and generativity, unique to this locale. But that’s quite a hard sell here. And so many of the habits of free speech have not been developed here. We don’t have a lot of experience with it. And as you see from your own post, quite often people get fed up with other people’s blather and the impulse to just shut up/dismiss/ridicule disagreeing voices is always there.

So, what’s needed here is more acts of speech, rather than less. I’m trying to actively shift perspectives here. Trying to get Americans to see their role in the stifling of free speech in the middle east. Trying to show hardliners here that free speech is…well, even though it’s very annoying (let’s be honest) – its worth it in terms of creating a generative society that can, paradoxically handle major threats.

Yes, that’s a cowardly utilitarian argument. But it needs to be made, and seems to be the thing to do right now.

Anyway, my thoughts on this are still cooking.

[Rezwan]

Trying to show hardliners here that free speech is…well, even though it’s very annoying (let’s be honest) – its worth it in terms of creating a generative society that can, paradoxically handle major threats.

Glenn! Actually have a question for you. I only read “All the Shah’s Men”. And having read that, I was surprised at how little it took to effect a coup. It seems that Iranians were in such awe and fear of America, and the legend of the CIA, that they were very easily manipulated. Just a few people showing up in the streets, having been paid to go there and shout certain things, effected panic. The actions taken were quite minimal. And now, naturally, every little thing is a major threat.

So, my argument is that a society with more robust press and speech would not succumb to this because a bunch of people shouting on the streets would just be another bunch of whiners. In the US, the arguments are plentiful, the opinions widely ranging, and they often shrilly cancel each other out and trivialize each other.

Unfortunately, the Mossadeq coup is not studied here. “Everyone knows” the CIA pulled a coup, but the only thing they’ve learned from it is to fear public protests, label them CIA backed, and clamp down on them. So, a lot of hostility and regret, but no constructive lessons learned, or policies developed.

So, you’ve read that other book. And others besides. What I’m trying to get at is, what was the actual mechanism by which the CIA effected it’s mischief in other places, and could better intra-national communication institutions and free speech institutions in those countries have prevented that (rather than served it, as they suggest)? I suppose not, if we’re dealing with power hungry, petty dictator wannabes. But that brings the flaw back home. It’s your own rulers that betray you, not the foreign powers. They succumb to temptation.

Do you see the case I’m trying to build?

Personally, I think it would be more empowering for Iranians to blame themselves for the Mossadeq mess, to say the CIA is incompetent and just trying to take credit for our own local power hungry people that used them for their own gain. I don’t know why most Iranians prefer the CIA conspiracy theory and the role of victim. And I honestly don’t know what the truth is. Maybe Mossadeq was incompetent and in over his head with the leading of Iran, and actually relieved for the uprising. And I wish we had a more robustly open society that debated these things. The level of argument her is really limited/stifled. What a shame.

More speech, not less. More topics, not less. More disagreement, not less. Hours of fun.

[Rezwan]

Also, perhaps the fusion forums is not the place to discuss this. Feel free to join the planiran forums and continue there – http://www.planiran.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/116

Or not. You’re all free.

Yay!

[Rezwan]

Ah, historic times. Celebrate! Dissidents Mass in Tehran to Subvert an Anti-U.S. Rally Yesterday was the 30 year anniversary of the US embassy takeover. The government always has their “death to America” rally on the anniversary. Kids in schools all have to rally and chant “d to A” as well. Shameful. Criticizing policies and proposing constructive changes is one thing. Chanting “death to…” is childish.

Even some government authorities seemed to grudgingly concede that the opposition had — for the first time — disrupted the annual anti-American rally. The official IRNA news agency reported in midafternoon that “rioters,” many wearing the opposition’s signature green color, had gathered in front of its offices on Valiasr Street chanting “Death to the dictator” and other antigovernment slogans.

Times they are a-changin’.

Although “death to dictator” does seem to just extend this pattern of rhetoric – except it isn’t targeting an individual per se, it’s targeting one who dictates. Like, if they chanted “death to imperialism”, rather than “death to America” that would be reasonable.

Having lived in Iran and knowing how they really go all out to coerce people to participate in the “death to America” thing – this is a great milestone. Disrupting the US embassy anniversary rally hate-speak. It’s like seeing crocuses coming up through the snow. Spring is coming.

Of course, the change has been percolating for some time. I only single this out because it’s one of those big official milestones. Like noticing a particularly large crocus…

An example of the change – a few months ago when I was still there, some folks came and spray painted “death to Khamenei” in green on the wall facing our house. Our neighbor is a high ranking official for the police and very pro Khamenei. So, he covered the opposition graffiti and painted over it “death to America”. Just then, my Mom, back from grocery shopping pulls up – she’s American. Flaming American. She walks up to him as he’s painting and says Mr. ___! What the…? You know I’m American. They talk, amicably. And then he apologizes and just paints over the whole thing. Blots it all out.

Wish they would all blot out the hate speak and just get down to practical negotiation of healthy coexistence of multiple viewpoints.

[Phil’s Dad]

Hear hear

[benf]

People should also know that Rezwan is the website’s webmaster. This is important to know because a while ago this site was having problems, which I communicated to her and she was very responsive in trying to figure it out, which wasn’t easy. All the way from Iran! The other side of the planet from where I sit!…The site works beautifully now and that is vital to me. I’ve been learning a lot from Focus Fusion. It is a portal to knowledge and opinion that is valuable for people across the globe to see. Her commentary as well has been interesting and illuminating. It bodes well for solving the problems going on in the world that we have someone from the Middle East participating in developing this technology that will contribute to a more secure and stable world. Thanks again Rezwan!

[Rezwan]

Benf! I’m back in the USofA. Got back August 17, ’09. I’m working full time for the Focus Fusion Society now. Which is just as well because they’re really cracking down on the internet there now. Which really hampers web work. Multiple filters, and big brother is definitely watching what you post, even intercepting emails. I don’t know if they had my keystrokes and passwords, but I was getting paranoid. I really need to look into that, by the way, if anyone knows about protection against hacking and totalitarian surveillance.

My family is still in Iran, though. So I’m not going to get too wild and crazy with my posts. Not until FFS is up and running, and LPP has all the money they need for research. Then my work here is done.

[Author]

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