Homepage Forums Research Never reducing propellant for deep space propulsion tech

This topic contains 3 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Joeviocoe 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #1736

    In this sketch there is a GUN SYSTEM as a propellant chamber and we are using IRON BALLS as a propellant.

    An electromagnet is attached on the other side of this engine .When we fire these IRON balls with the help of this gun system then these balls will move towards forward side and a back force will be create to propel this engine . These iron balls will be piled up on the surface of this electromagnet and we can again reuse these iron balls and send back these iron balls into the propellant chamber or refilling the Gun system again and again with the help of a mechanical system .

    In this way this engine will work and the propellant (IRON BALLS) will never be reduced.

    I have a question that suppose if the iron balls could reduce its velocity with itself and hit with electromagnet with low velocity then this engine will move or not?

    suppose the iron ball is expelling with 5 meter/second speed from Gun system and is hitting the electromagnet or a wall with 2 meter /second velocity then this device should work or not?
    further more I would like to inform you that we will use FERROFLUID(magnetic fluid) to reduce the velocity of these Iron balls .These iron balls will be filled up with this magnetic fluid and at the time of expelling this fluid will be in solid state but once expelling from the gun system it will convert into liquid form to reduce the velocity of iron balls .In this way this iron ball will reduce its velocity with itself due to ferro liquid.

    we can also use another system to reduce the velocity of iron ball up to 0%by using two electromagnets .In this solution suppose iron ball is moving through between two electromagnet and these two electromagnet will try to attract this iron ball and this iron ball will be stopped immediately.
    There is also an another way that’s help iron ball itself can reduce its velocity before hitting the wall.
    Now my question is now the velocity of this iron ball is Zero then this engine should move or not as we are getting thrust of gun system to propel the engine and iron ball is in 0 velocity and the force has been canceled to stop this iron ball due to both electromagnet .

    Please explain your answer.
    i shall be very grateful to you.

    #13877

    Francisl
    Participant

    As I understand your system, nothing enters and nothing leaves which makes it a closed system. Imagine that this system is placed on a four wheel cart with low friction bearings and the cart is on a level surface. When the system is off the cart doesn’t move. When the system is turned on the cart will move back and forth but stay in the same average position. This is the result of Newton’s Third Law of Motion that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
    This system is equivalent to throwing a ball back and forth between your right hand and your left hand. The ball moves but on average you don’t move from where you are standing.
    You may be interested in spacecraft propulsion.

    #13878

    Dear Sir,
    If a object is out from a system then it will be not a part of the system. suppose I and you are standing on a roller skating and there is 10 meter distance between us .I stand on the front part and you stands on the end part.Now I’m throwing a ball with the velocity of 5 meter/ second and in reaction the roller skate will move towards front side with you but ball is still in the air (for a moment untill you catch it) and its velocity has reduced from 5 to 3 meter /second .when you will catch it, a back force will be create to pull the roller skating but it will be less than the force was created by me at the timing of throwing the ball towards you. I can collect this ball again from you by using a conveyor belt system.
    in this way this engine will work .This engine is not a closed system .the iron ball is expelling outside(having spin velocity) from the inside part of this system and reducing its velocity with itself (using magnetic fluid)and after with reduced velocity is again entering in this system.
    if we try this system on the earth then it will work and if this kind system works on the earth then there is no doubt that it will not work in space.

    vikram

    #13881

    Joeviocoe
    Member

    Francisl is correct. Newton’s laws of motion govern this idea.

    There is no way to recover the momentum of the ball/projectile (to recollect the propellant material), without also applying that momentum to the spacecraft in the opposite direction…. negating any previous momentum in the positive direction. What you’ve come up with, is a very complex vibrator.

    Whether it is a magnetic plate, using ferromagnetic fluid, or anything else… as the relative velocity of the ball slows (in relation to the craft)… the other side of the magnet will get the momentum. Magnetism is an invisible force, but it ultimately transfers all force in the same way as a physical connection. No different than firing a bullet into a spring/buffer to recapture it. The gun will move back, but connecting the spring or magnet that is capturing the bullet, to the gun… will always produce the equal and opposite effect. Making the net momentum 0.

    This is a “closed system” even if material seems to move freely through the vacuum of space. If the whole thing could be put inside a finite container without changing anything else… it would be more obvious to an observer… but still the same closed system.

    No, there is no way any object can just “reduce its velocity with itself (using magnetic fluid)”. Remember, velocity is relative to something.
    Read Newton’s 1st law:

    Every body persists in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/First_law.ogg

    In an inertial reference frame, an object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a net force.

    The ball cannot change it’s velocity relative to the spacecraft or its attached recovery mechanism…. without acting upon said mechanism. If the ball slows down because of a magnet force (spin or otherwise).. the magnet pushes on the recovery mechanism and will slow down the spacecraft. There is no free ride.

    Think about it, if a spinning metal ball could change it’s linear velocity with its self contained ferromagnetic fluid… then why need the gun, the electromagnets, or the spacecraft? Just put the cargo/passengers inside a scaled up ball, and go.

    Magnetism is misunderstood enough, that is it conveniently used to obscure part of the equation. Many a perpetual motion machine has used it.
    Take out the magnetic middleman, and just use a mass off center on a spinning axis. When the mass is going in the –> direction, the motor assembly / spacecraft will move < --, but that mass always recovered by remaining physically attached to the motor shaft. So as the mass makes its way back <-- to restart the cycle... the momentum is reversed and the spacecraft moves back -->. The common vibrator!
    That is essentially the same as your idea, without all the magnetism stuff which doesn’t change anything other than making it easy forget or misapply Newton’s laws.

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