More news, please

[Aeronaut]

Brian H wrote: Yes, excellent stuff! Actually, it’s on the LPP site, too.

Interesting excerpt:
“The electron beam carried about 0.5 kJ of energy and the plasmoid held about 1 kJ of energy, nearly half that stored in the magnetic field of the device. So, this is evidence that a substantial part of the total energy available is being concentrated in the plasmoids and transferred to the beams.”
The electron (beta) beam is not the one to be exploited to extract energy, of course; it’s the alpha (helium) beam, which is not mentioned. I’ve been wondering how that beam is being handled in this experimental rig. It seems not to be used or measured in any way as far as I can tell.

Yes, the “missing” ion beam sticks out. I think he was thinking that we all know it’s balanced by the electron beam’s energy. The drift tube has a Rogowski coil at each end, last I heard. I doubt LPP’s ignoring that output, since it can provide electrical unity in one of Eric’s break-even scenarios.

[Brian H]

Aeronaut wrote:
…
Yes, the “missing” ion beam sticks out. I think he was thinking that we all know it’s balanced by the electron beam’s energy. The drift tube has a Rogowski coil at each end, last I heard. I doubt LPP’s ignoring that output, since it can provide electrical unity in one of Eric’s break-even scenarios.

I was thinking specifically in terms of the experimental rig; it seems to be looking at the establishment of the fusion cycle, and confirming the generation of energetic neutrons. The capture of alpha and X-ray energy seems to be entirely outside this setup’s design capabilities.

[Aeronaut]

Brian H wrote:

…
Yes, the “missing” ion beam sticks out. I think he was thinking that we all know it’s balanced by the electron beam’s energy. The drift tube has a Rogowski coil at each end, last I heard. I doubt LPP’s ignoring that output, since it can provide electrical unity in one of Eric’s break-even scenarios.

I was thinking specifically in terms of the experimental rig; it seems to be looking at the establishment of the fusion cycle, and confirming the generation of energetic neutrons. The capture of alpha and X-ray energy seems to be entirely outside this setup’s design capabilities.

I’m always looking at it from a systems engineering level first. So I build a case for anything by asking “what are my various sensors telling me?” Next in the detective or accounting work is what can and what may be derived from this information.

But I can see where you’re going with this- how was the electron beam directly measured? or was it derived from theory stating that each beam carries half the plasmoid’s energy? I’d like to know, too.

[Brian H]

Aeronaut wrote:

…
Yes, the “missing” ion beam sticks out. I think he was thinking that we all know it’s balanced by the electron beam’s energy. The drift tube has a Rogowski coil at each end, last I heard. I doubt LPP’s ignoring that output, since it can provide electrical unity in one of Eric’s break-even scenarios.

I was thinking specifically in terms of the experimental rig; it seems to be looking at the establishment of the fusion cycle, and confirming the generation of energetic neutrons. The capture of alpha and X-ray energy seems to be entirely outside this setup’s design capabilities.

I’m always looking at it from a systems engineering level first. So I build a case for anything by asking “what are my various sensors telling me?” Next in the detective or accounting work is what can and what may be derived from this information.

But I can see where you’re going with this- how was the electron beam directly measured? or was it derived from theory stating that each beam carries half the plasmoid’s energy? I’d like to know, too.
I’m also just curious about what happens with the helium ions and “ash”. There is a posting here: https://focusfusion.pmhclients.com/index.php/site/article/lpp_experiment_update_nov_2_2009/ which suggests the drift tube Rogowski coil will measure “the beam”, which I assume must be the alpha beam exiting the anode.

[Lerner]

The report describes how we estimated the energy in the electron beam. The Rogowski coils to measure the ion beam are not fully functional yet–soon, we hope!

[QuantumDot]

Could once a week of so, someone working on the device write about its current state, meaning what sensors are working, what stage of the project you are working on, like i think that i have heard that you are moving to stage 6 which is supposed to be working with heavier nuclei. And then maybe to sum up what it actually means to those that wouldn’t understand. A list of the goals that you have meet so far and what has convinced you that you have achieved them would he great. Either here or somewhere in the website in a post or somewhere.

[Breakable]

I don’t think informal evidence can be convincing and it would take time away from actual progress. What you probably would want is peer reviewed papers in prestigious journal, with other experiments/papers that are confirming the results.

[Brian H]

Breakable wrote: I don’t think informal evidence can be convincing and it would take time away from actual progress. What you probably would want is peer reviewed papers in prestigious journal, with other experiments/papers that are confirming the results.

“Convincing” isn’t the point. Progress updates don’t have to be presented with scientific rigor. LPP would naturally need to be cautious about claims and predictions, but those can safely be left to the comments and forums. 😉 :cheese: That would be us. :coolsmile:

[Aeronaut]

Breakable wrote: I don’t think informal evidence can be convincing and it would take time away from actual progress. What you probably would want is peer reviewed papers in prestigious journal, with other experiments/papers that are confirming the results.

Informal evidence can help get a lot of balls rolling. Universities don’t move at the speed of business, so a much longer lead time must be planned for formal proof to assemble it’s funding and resources.

But that need not stop us from lighting a NJ subdivision while peer-review experiments are building a head of steam. 😆

[vansig]

Aeronaut wrote:

Yes, excellent stuff! Actually, it’s on the LPP site, too.

Interesting excerpt:
“The electron beam carried about 0.5 kJ of energy and the plasmoid held about 1 kJ of energy, nearly half that stored in the magnetic field of the device. So, this is evidence that a substantial part of the total energy available is being concentrated in the plasmoids and transferred to the beams.”
The electron (beta) beam is not the one to be exploited to extract energy, of course; it’s the alpha (helium) beam, which is not mentioned. I’ve been wondering how that beam is being handled in this experimental rig. It seems not to be used or measured in any way as far as I can tell.

Yes, the “missing” ion beam sticks out. I think he was thinking that we all know it’s balanced by the electron beam’s energy. The drift tube has a Rogowski coil at each end, last I heard. I doubt LPP’s ignoring that output, since it can provide electrical unity in one of Eric’s break-even scenarios.

this opens some questions..
is any actual fusion occurring at this early stage?
are the direction of the beams consistent?

[Aeronaut]

vansig wrote:

Yes, excellent stuff! Actually, it’s on the LPP site, too.

Interesting excerpt:
“The electron beam carried about 0.5 kJ of energy and the plasmoid held about 1 kJ of energy, nearly half that stored in the magnetic field of the device. So, this is evidence that a substantial part of the total energy available is being concentrated in the plasmoids and transferred to the beams.”
The electron (beta) beam is not the one to be exploited to extract energy, of course; it’s the alpha (helium) beam, which is not mentioned. I’ve been wondering how that beam is being handled in this experimental rig. It seems not to be used or measured in any way as far as I can tell.

Yes, the “missing” ion beam sticks out. I think he was thinking that we all know it’s balanced by the electron beam’s energy. The drift tube has a Rogowski coil at each end, last I heard. I doubt LPP’s ignoring that output, since it can provide electrical unity in one of Eric’s break-even scenarios.

this opens some questions..
is any actual fusion occurring at this early stage?
are the direction of the beams consistent?

Yes, we have been getting deuterium fusion. It’s nowhere near as difficult as profitable fusion, especially when crippled on the drawing board and planning phases by a steam cycle. Goal #7 is a fresh start, though, using the intended pB-11 fuel.

I’ve always assumed the fields’ polarities were the same in all shots, thus the beams should shoot in the same direction every time. Eric or Aaron?

[AaronB]

Yes, the beams shoot in the same direction every time. As Eric mentioned, the Rogowski coil isn’t ready yet, so we haven’t been able to measure the ion beam output. All in good time.

[QuantumDot]

is it true that the output power is suppose to be 5 times the input power?

What is the highest power that you have put in so far, how much do you plan to do before this project is over, do you think that you might put in move then a megavolt per shot or for money or parts would that be too much?

[Aeronaut]

QuantumDot wrote: is it true that the output power is suppose to be 5 times the input power?

What is the highest power that you have put in so far, how much do you plan to do before this project is over, do you think that you might put in move then a megavolt per shot or for money or parts would that be too much?

The highest voltage caps I’ve found so far are rated at 100kV but last a LOT longer in the 30kV to 40kV range. I’d look for megavolt caps, cap controllers, switches, and HV plates in a 2nd or 3rd generation derivative designed for a heavier fuel in order to get a 5:1 energy gain.

[QuantumDot]

On the Wikipedia page about DPF it says that, the ones that are larger in the MJ, MA range have pinch’s that last milliseconds, but i didn’t see what experiment that it was referring to and if they do exist does that mean that somewhere the right equipment exists, do you or anyone know? with the improvements that have already been made so far the millisecond confinement time with megawatts of input power look very good.

“These critical phases last typically tens of nanoseconds for a small (kJ, 100 kA) focus to around a microsecond for a large (MJ, several MA) focus”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_Plasma_Focus

[Author]

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