Continuous energy production

[rashidas]

This question may show my ignorance but would a focus fusion power plant run continuously or just intermittently? I assume that a FF power plant would need to be turned off from time to time. When the power plant is off how would energy be stored? What would happen to heat produced in the process? If FF is used to produce heat for an industry, what happens when the FF plant is off-line?

Any comments?

[RobP]

I would expect there to multiple DPFs per plant which can be ramped up during peak demand, then individual DPFs can be maintained during times of low demand.

[zapkitty]

That’s the plan, and the cost projections per FF unit make it a very easy one to implement for industrial and utility applications.

Last I heard the regular maintenance cycle for the notional 5MWe FF unit is 24 hours downtime out of every 90 days for electrode changeout and a general checkup, and that includes a 12 hour cooling period while the short-term radiation dies down.

[Henning]

zapkitty wrote: Last I heard the regular maintenance cycle for the notional 5MWe FF unit is 24 hours downtime out of every 90 days for electrode changeout and a general checkup, and that includes a 12 hour cooling period while the short-term radiation dies down.

Well, yeah, but those numbers are all very speculative.

[zapkitty]

Henning wrote:
Well, yeah, but those numbers are all very speculative.

Estimates are what we get until the test unit is functioning.

Electrode wear, capacitor wear … these would seem to be the primary maintenance drivers and we should start getting some preliminary answers fairly soon.

Hard data on actual operational cycles will have to wait until the designing of production prototypes.

[Tulse]

The above presumes that the primary use of FF devices will be for non-grid power, generated directly at the site of consumption. Is that the most likely starting point for commercialize FF, or will instead we see it replace small scale generation stations? I wonder if industry is willing to take a leap into an unproved electrical generation technology and go off-grid — I think that, by contrast, power companies would be more familiar with the basics of generation, and be ready to swap out old tech for FF.

[AaronB]

I anticipate a situation where we license the technology to a manufacturer that builds several FF generators which are sold or leased to a utility company for testing at a pilot location. That location might be an electrical substation that powers a big neighborhood. There would be about 5 FF generators all drawing off of and feeding into the same big banks of capacitors, with the surplus being used by the customers. If one FF reactor needs to be repaired or serviced, it would go offline while the other 4 pick up the slack. If demand goes up or down, the pulse rate of all 5 generators would respond, varying from (off the top of my head) 100-500 hz. If there was a catastrophic failure and we had to shut the whole thing down, the utility company could tap into the regular grid to power the neighborhood until the bugs were worked out. After the pilot location was operated for a few months without problems, through a couple of electrode replacements, then we could start to go full scale. I imagine the utility companies would want to replace their most difficult nodes first, gradually working to replace the majority of their substations with FF generators, and eventually taking their big coal and gas-powered plants offline as the FF-powered grid becomes robust enough to handle the ups and downs of demand. Assuming it works well in one area, there would be little difficulty copying that template all over the world. The limiting factor at that point would be construction speed.

A second possible route into the utility market would be as a load leveler. FF generators would allow the coal or gas power plants to operate continuously at their ideal level, and only kick in as needed. FF generators would be located at the power plant and replace their current backup generators. This would have minimal impact to current operations, and would allow the utility to test and perfect the process without public scrutiny or NIMBY issues.

[zapkitty]

AaronB wrote: … and would allow the utility to test and perfect the process without public scrutiny or NIMBY issues.

… but you’d want the public to be aware that Focus Fusion itself does invite public scrutiny and that the utility should send the more inquisitive types to FF resources.

It seems that humanity will never be rid of the sort of idiots who will self-determine that the mag fields from an FF unit are turning them into newts… but there are also a whole lot of people out there who’ve been burned by corporate malfeasance in pursuit of corporate profits and such people will want valid assurances that this latest “thing” really is safe.

[Aeronaut]

zapkitty wrote:

… and would allow the utility to test and perfect the process without public scrutiny or NIMBY issues.

… but you’d want the public to be aware that Focus Fusion itself does invite public scrutiny and that the utility should send the more inquisitive types to FF resources.

It seems that humanity will never be rid of the sort of idiots who will self-determine that the mag fields from an FF unit are turning them into newts… but there are also a whole lot of people out there who’ve been burned by corporate malfeasance in pursuit of corporate profits and such people will want valid assurances that this latest “thing” really is safe.

Think in sound bites and be ready to defend against attack ads by those who profit from the public’s ignorance. Most of the public, including prospects in the business world, are unaware that the world can change for the better any time soon and that they can play a significant part. I like Aaron’s scenario along with another where neighborhood businesses operate their own rooftop FFs.

My guess is that if you take an empty factory (doesn’t have to be over 50,000 sq ft) and find a way to locally fund anywhere from 20 to 100 or more clean energy jobs using this building as a charter school/ research center, you will get a LOT of free local TV news coverage to kick off the local debate. Be ready to fund a lot of speaking engagements in several counties. This hack addresses the education and clean energy jobs hot-button issues and can readily scale to the global level using publicity rather than advertising. :coolsmile:

[Tulse]

Aeronaut wrote: if you take an empty factory (doesn’t have to be over 50,000 sq ft) and find a way to locally fund anywhere from 20 to 100 or more clean energy jobs using this building as a charter school/ research center, you will get a LOT of free local TV news coverage to kick off the local debate.

But be aware that, without careful planning and PR, the debate might start with “Company puts nuclear reactor using toxic fuel in local building.”

[zapkitty]

Tulse wrote:
But be aware that, without careful planning and PR, the debate might start with “Company puts nuclear reactor using toxic fuel in local building.”

If all FF gets is attacks with that level of truthfulness then that won’t be a problem… unless someone from FF fails to address the accusation… but actual attacks probably won’t be so limited by reality.

And again: real people who’ve watched corporate parasites slash and burn their way through the world while lying their asses off in the process… these people will have valid concerns.

Any opposition forces will gladly stir up and magnify those concerns… often for the benefit of the same corporatists who are behind the current looting… but ignoring the validity of genuine concerns would make FF proponents no better than the parasites.

A variety of explanations that don’t come off as offhand dismissals will need to be prepared ahead of time.

That’s Rezwan’s department, right? 🙂

[AaronB]

Since commercial FF generators are still a few years away, and we are being very open in this process, I expect the general population to be very welcoming. Once we reach breakeven in our current experiments, we will get a lot of publicity, and all of the public concerns about radiation and toxic fuel will be answered at that time. That would clear the way for later development and implementation in local communities. We don’t need to give off-hand dismissals to their worries because there are perfectly legitimate answers to the few concerns that pop up. We won’t have to be sneaky or dismissive. And yes, Rezwan is doing a great job getting the word out, and this forum is the place where concerns are being answered. Hopefully you all realize that you are paving the way for fusion implementation. Kind of cool when you think about it.

[MTd2]

Was even 10J per shot achieved anyway?

[Tulse]

AaronB wrote: Hopefully you all realize that you are paving the way for fusion implementation. Kind of cool when you think about it.

Although I don’t know how much I’m helping personally, I am delighted at the transparency of the FF team, and really feel privileged to watch first hand the development of what may be a hugely transformative technology. As someone else said once, it’s as if the Wright Brothers had a blog.

[Aeronaut]

Tulse wrote:

if you take an empty factory (doesn’t have to be over 50,000 sq ft) and find a way to locally fund anywhere from 20 to 100 or more clean energy jobs using this building as a charter school/ research center, you will get a LOT of free local TV news coverage to kick off the local debate.

But be aware that, without careful planning and PR, the debate might start with “Company puts nuclear reactor using toxic fuel in local building.”

The charter school by definition precedes the cutting-edge fusion research and proving/ developing facilities, since its funded by a direct-sales office in the same city or even village. I’m designing this model to directly address any and all safety concerns head-on with real information- including how to put a FF DPF on their business’s roof- that any person in the US can get in person with less than a 25 km drive. (!) Thus even if this network of 10,000 or more charter schools can’t commercialize aneutronic fusion (I have no interest in DD for its own sake or DT fusion, period), it will produce a myriad of Bright Line transaction potentials. Rezwan’s called these the Multiple Bottom Line.

Thus Focus Fusion is already paying it’s way in society in the form of ideas that can reduce air pollution by reducing the distance that millions of Americans need to drive to school or work, as well as creating new jobs, without inventing a single thing.

If you’re reading this in another country, please feel free to adapt these ideas to your locale. Heck, copy them outright if you can. Somebody has to break the ice and prove the business model before there’s a bandwagon to jump aboard.

[Author]

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