The Focus Fusion Society Forums Innovative Confinement Concepts (ICC) and others What are the top Alternative Fusion candidates?

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  • #359
    Rezwan
    Participant

    What are the top fusion alternatives? (Aside from Focus Fusion, of course 🙂 ) If we asked people in the field, other than their own work, who else they thought was promising, we could come up with a good list. There’s plenty of space in these forums to showcase/explore the contenders.

    What’s the deal with Tri-alpha, and all the other approaches hinted at on this plasmas.org website?

    One thing I want to do is systematically go through the list and email the folks. Get them to post/boast about their approach in this section of the forum. Start building the list of contenders. If only to strengthen the pitch to the X-Prize folks that there is a race simmering here which could be ignited by public attention and clamoring.

    There’s a lot of inertia on the fusion front, while all the disparate entites chip away at the problem in relative obscurity.

    Attached files

    #1813
    Sigma
    Participant

    I can think of atleast three potential fusion contenders off the top of my head:

    1.) Electron Power Systems(EPS), very similar in concept to the focus fusion, except it uses self-contained toroidal plasmoids and collides them. http://www.electronpowersystems.com

    2.) Prometheus2, another device that has some similarities to the focus fusion device. http://www.prometheus2.net/

    3.) Proton21, uses a gigawatt pulse to implode a piece of copper(simplistic explanation I know) producing energy and basic elements. http://www.proton21.com.ua/

    #1814
    Sigma
    Participant

    Most of the companies above have been stalled due to lack of funds. If there were to be a renewed interest in fusion, with say the Fusion X-prize, these companies may get the funding they need to complete their technologies. Personally I hope all the fusion technologies make it on the market, I’m sure they will each fill a niche.

    #3309
    JimmyT
    Participant

    I just got my January Popular Science magazine in the mail. It contains an article about a couple of Canadians who have a nuclear fusion candidate device.

    It seems to work (or rather not work) by mechanically generating a shock-wave which is focused in a central area to create ignition.

    Will it work?

    Well, I guess it depends what you mean by that. The hard part with this scheme is going to be how to extract the energy efficiently and economically in order to power the next cycle. Even if they do achieve fusion they are still going to have to go through a typical Rankine steam cycle to generate electricity. Then Mr Carnot is going to have something to say about the conversion efficiency’s

    They presented no measurable results (data) which indicate they are making substantial progress in spite of having multimillion dollars in funding.

    Interestingly, they mentioned TriAlpha’s attempts in the article but completely omitted any mention of Mr Lerner and his work.

    The time line which they presented to achieve break even is 10 years.

    #3349
    Alex Pollard
    Participant

    Another well-funded fusion concept lacking an efficient means for converting generated energy into electricity:

    Scientists plan to ignite tiny man-made star

    While it has seemed an impossible goal for nearly 100 years, scientists now believe that they are on brink of cracking one of the biggest problems in physics by harnessing the power of nuclear fusion, the reaction that burns at the heart of the sun.

    In the spring, a team will begin attempts to ignite a tiny man-made star inside a laboratory and trigger a thermonuclear reaction.

    Its goal is to generate temperatures of more than 100 million degrees Celsius and pressures billions of times higher than those found anywhere else on earth, from a speck of fuel little bigger than a pinhead. If successful, the experiment will mark the first step towards building a practical nuclear fusion power station and a source of almost limitless energy.

    At a time when fossil fuel supplies are dwindling and fears about global warming are forcing governments to seek clean energy sources, fusion could provide the answer. Hydrogen, the fuel needed for fusion reactions, is among the most abundant in the universe. Building work on the £1.2 billion nuclear fusion experiment is due to be completed in spring.

    Scientists at the National Ignition Facility (NIF) in Livermore, nestled among the wine-producing vineyards of central California, will use a laser that concentrates 1,000 times the electric generating power of the United States into a billionth of a second.

    The result should be an explosion in the 32ft-wide reaction chamber which will produce at least 10 times the amount of energy used to create it.

    #3353
    Sibbie
    Participant

    Hey, thats an interesting thread. All your views are informative and appreciable.

    #3354
    annodomini2
    Participant

    I suggest we make this thread a sticky as I would guess this will be a popular question and will save reposts

    #3355
    JimmyT
    Participant

    Sigma wrote: Most of the companies above have been stalled due to lack of funds. If there were to be a renewed interest in fusion, with say the Fusion X-prize, these companies may get the funding they need to complete their technologies. Personally I hope all the fusion technologies make it on the market, I’m sure they will each fill a niche.

    I think once one approach is successful, other approaches will have a lot of problems getting funding. Particularly if they are inherently more expensive to begin with. So the first technology to cross the finish line will have exclusivity for a long time.

    #3356
    Breakable
    Keymaster

    JimmyT wrote:
    I think once one approach is successful, other approaches will have a lot of problems getting funding. Particularly if they are inherently more expensive to begin with. So the first technology to cross the finish line will have exclusivity for a long time.

    I would expect the opposite, because if fusion is proven to work(or at least break-even).
    without multi-billion investment, then a lot of investors will start crawling for this pie (which is not truth at the moment of speaking),

    As usually happens not all of them will be accommodated by the original inventor, so its likely they will invest into alternative approaches, even if they are more expensive and/or more problematic.

    If you see in industry there is always some options for each type of solution each with its advantages and disadvantages.
    An example – how many types of persistent data storage do you know?

    If FF fails to work, a lot of others will take the lead, but even if somebody else succeeds faster, FF can still cross the finish line successfully and find its own niche,

    #3357
    JimmyT
    Participant

    That is assuming that any of these other approaches can be made to work at all.

    I’m doubtful that any of the other approaches (at least the ones I’m familiar with) will work no matter how much money is spent on them. This fusion thing has proven to be a rather tough nut to crack.

    Eric doesn’t believe that black holes exist. But I know of at least one. It’s the Tokamak research program. It can suck in an infinite amount of money and nothing ever comes out.

    #3469
    Aeronaut
    Participant

    Breakable wrote:

    I think once one approach is successful, other approaches will have a lot of problems getting funding. Particularly if they are inherently more expensive to begin with. So the first technology to cross the finish line will have exclusivity for a long time.

    I would expect the opposite, because if fusion is proven to work(or at least break-even).
    without multi-billion investment, then a lot of investors will start crawling for this pie (which is not truth at the moment of speaking),

    As usually happens not all of them will be accommodated by the original inventor, so its likely they will invest into alternative approaches, even if they are more expensive and/or more problematic.

    If you see in industry there is always some options for each type of solution each with its advantages and disadvantages.
    An example – how many types of persistent data storage do you know?

    If FF fails to work, a lot of others will take the lead, but even if somebody else succeeds faster, FF can still cross the finish line successfully and find its own niche,

    I agree with Breakable. Way back in the ’80s there was a buzzword among investing headlines called “High Tech”, whatever that means. Once somebody proves fusion above breakeven, there’s going to be a bandwagon that everybody has to get aboard (according to the headlines). These herds are driven by emotion, not real research. Practical fusion, in my opinion, is going to make the dot-com circus look like a one trick pony show.

    #3536
    Tasmodevil44
    Participant

    Jimmy T, you hit it right on the nose in comparing tokomak to a big money devouring black hole. I think President George Bush wasted 3 billion on the ITER (although I may be wrong). Someone once joked that the Russians gave us tokomak so that we would not succeed.

    When it comes to top candidates, I think the cube – shaped device of magnetic coils by Bussard and his team showed great promise. It was already producing something like 20,000 times more fusion reactions than the best Farnsworth fusor device. But then the Pentagon killed funding just as it was starting to show great promise. This is typical of government and your taxpayer dollars at work …. too much stop and go funding instead of anything ever being consistent.

    #4691
    digh
    Participant

    There are posts from a Helion Energy with their “Fusion Engine”. Not aneutronic, deuterium/tritum, but the burn chamber is isolated and seems to produce minimal radioactive waste. It is a field reversed configuration with two plasmas accelerated together at 1 million mph in the burn chamber. They claim that scaling up would produce “break even” They have a neat illustration/cartoon but not much real data to verify their claims. Does anyone have any hard information on this group and their progress.

    #5344
    Brian H
    Participant

    Tasmodevil44 wrote: Jimmy T, you hit it right on the nose in comparing tokomak to a big money devouring black hole. I think President George Bush wasted 3 billion on the ITER (although I may be wrong). Someone once joked that the Russians gave us tokomak so that we would not succeed.

    When it comes to top candidates, I think the cube – shaped device of magnetic coils by Bussard and his team showed great promise. It was already producing something like 20,000 times more fusion reactions than the best Farnsworth fusor device. But then the Pentagon killed funding just as it was starting to show great promise. This is typical of government and your taxpayer dollars at work …. too much stop and go funding instead of anything ever being consistent.

    The Bussard device is called the Polywell, and the Navy is funding it fairly heavily. Check out http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/09/iec-bussard-fusion-has-gotten-8-million.html and http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/index.php .

    #6086
    QuantumDot
    Participant

    Well for large power plants Gigawatt or more
    1. Bussard polywell
    2. Crossfire which is a different version of a polywell
    http://www.crossfirefusor.com/nuclear-fusion-reactor/overview.html
    3. tokamak and similar
    4. laser compression
    https://lasers.llnl.gov/

    medium power plants megawatts
    1. focus fusion
    then nuclear
    1. traveling wave
    2. beta voltaic
    3. Hyperion
    4. thorium

    small kilowatts or less
    1. cold fusion
    2. bubble fusion
    3. pyroelectric

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power

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