[Rematog]

Just a minute….

At the most optimistic, (20MW power blocks with installed cost of $500k ea), repowering America’s electrical generating capacity will cost about 30 BILLION dollars.

Of course big business and Wall Street will be involved. This could not be achieved in any other realistic way in the USA as it is today. And, the electrical distribution infrastructure will need to be maintained and even improved (cheap power means more demand for power).

Note, I said distribution, not transmission. Even if the Fusion Power Blocks are distributed throughout the system, power will still have to get from the local substation to your home or business. This isn’t “Mr. Fusion” from “Back to the Future”, you wouldn’t be installing one in your basement…. unless your Bill Gates rich and have a house using Megawatts of power….lol

Rematog

Transmission = high voltage (generally > 60Kv) lines carrying large amounts of power cross country from the power plant to the distribution substation.
Distribution = Med. Voltage (13Kv and less) taking power from the substation to the customer.

(yes, I think of 480V three phase power as low voltage….)

[Rematog]

Jimmy,

I assume this input efficiency was taken into account when the ion beam output of .98*input energy and X-ray output of 0.57*input energy numbers were calculated. Otherwise the reaction is not even close be break-even.

If it was taken into account, them my numbers add-up as well.

If not, we might as well be arguing Star Wars vs Star Trek…….

PS: Can anyone direct me to any “Official” statements regarding power block size and cost estimates. One factor that is critical is what is included in the “cost”. Is it the cost of a Power Block leaving a factory where it is made (FOB Factory) or is the the cost of a Power Block installed at a site with all the “fix-ens”.

PPS: I reran my calcs for a 20MW power block requiring the exact same maintenance labor, and an all in installed cost of only $500k. This brought the busbar cost of power down to $1.77/MW-hr. Note, this gives a cost of about 25% that as I got when using 5 MW (1/4 the power) for $1,000k (twice the capital cost). In other words, Operations and Maintenance expense would still be significant. For the 20MW case, my estimate showed O&M being 78% of the cost of power. So any serious cost estimate needs to have a much better breakdown of maintenance needs than what I’ve found from my readings of this forum and listening of Mr. Lerner’s Google talk.

Please, do not take this to mean that I am casting dispersions on Focus Fusion, Mr. Lerner or how important a break though Focus Fusion, or any similar low cost energy tech. would be. I’m just saying accurate power costs will require much more data than I’ve seen. And these costs need to include all the costs of actually building and operating the equipment.

Rematog

[Rematog]

I’ve thought a little more about the use of a Focus Fusion Power Block as a process steam boiler.

If the X-ray energy converter could be designed to have a partial electrical conversion, just enough to make the unit self generate the electrical power needed for it’s own operation, then from my previous post, the 8,010 net (95% conversion) of the X-ray portion of the output would need to have 1,745 kw of electrical output before the “boiler” portion.

This would leave 6,265 kw of useful thermal energy(at 95% of total X-ray energy captured). This is 21.4 MBtu/hr, (roughtly 21k lb/hr of steam, depending on feedwater and steam conditions) which if provided by coal at 90% boiler eff. would require burning 1 ton of good coal per hour (12,000 Btu/lb, a good grade of bituminous, more is western coal (PRB) is burned), or about 25k scf of natural gas per hour.

This is not large by industrial standards. I think that the total CURRENT (at today’s energy prices) US demand for Focus Fusion power blocks would easily be double, likely triple, the 200,000 units previously mentioned to meet current electric demand. This is before added increase demand due to lower prices and the increase due to new uses (desalination, etc).

So I would be un-surprised to see a demand of almost 1 million Focus fusion units (if 5MW size) within 10 year (in the US alone!!!). This makes me wonder if labor to operate and maintain these units is available. This would certainly be a growth industry, lol.

[Rematog]

Lol, yes, if problems are overcome, a tech is more attractive.

Your post refers to hybrids with significant battery only range and grid recharging. I concede that a vehicle with those charateristics would reduce automotive emissions. But to my knowledge, the current crop of hybrids do not have either of those charateristics.

Also, why not use a high efficiency diesel in a hybrid? It would then be also capable of using bio-diesel fuels.

But, I still contend that the cost of the current hybrids puts them out of the range of much of the market. Yes, having an all electric drive with in wheel motors has advantages, but is cost one of those advantages?

If a hybrid had enough batteries to have reasonable all electric range, say 60 miles, it would have a battery of considerable size, and hence, cost.

I know I being redundant, but cost is a very important factor if these vehicles are to make a real change in oil consumption. I personally would rather buy a $20K all electric Corolla and a $20K turbo-diesel Corolla getting 50 mpg, rather than a single, $40K hybrid. But even then, I have to be convinced that the life cycle cost of the all electric had at least cost parity, including battery replacement, over the turbo-diesel, before I’d buy one.

[Rematog]

Heat is a GOOD thing.

Actually, I can see valuable uses for the heat energy of the X-rays

[Rematog]

Why Repower an existing power plant?

One: Focus fusion is not

[Rematog]

I apologize again for the prior post. I could find no way (spaces, etc.) to format the data so it was easily readable. If there is somewhere on this board to post PDF and Excel versions, please let me know, and I’ll post them.

Behind my assumptions

[Rematog]

I’m sorry, this forum does not allow attachments. I’m copying the spreadsheet into this text file. I can see it is not very readable. I apologize for this and ask for suggestions.

Plant size, net MW 2x 600MW 1,200

Number of 5MW FF blocks: 240
Avg Capital cost of 5 MW block $1,000,000

Capital Cost of Plant $240,000,000
Cost/Kw Capacity $200

Maintenace required
1 day/4-weeks 12
1 week/year 5

Total Down time, hrs 408

Capacity Factor 95%

Coal plant Cap Factor 80-85%
(for comparison)

4-week Maintenace
1 Supv @$60/hr $480
4 crafts @$45/hr $1,440
$1,920

Materials (1/4% of Cap Cost) $2,500
$4,420

Annual Cost (12/yr) $53,040

Annual Overhaul
1 Supv @$60/hr $6,600
8 crafts @$45/hr $39,600
$46,200

Materials 2% of cap cost 20,000
$66,200

Annual Overhaul Maint Cost/block $119,240

Total Maint/plant $28,617,600

Overhead Annual Salary Annaul Cost
Plant Mgr $120,000 $180,000
Maint Mgr $100,000 $150,000
Ops Mgr $100,000 $150,000
Engineers (4) $80,000 $480,000
Nuc. Physics (1) $100,000 $150,000
Safety Coor (1) $60,000 $90,000
Shift Supv (5) $70,000 $525,000
Operators (4/shift) $50,000 $1,200,000
Security (3/shift) $30,000 $720,000
Maint Supv Inc. in weekly costs
Controls techs (3 ea) $70,000 $315,000
Office Mgr $50,000 $75,000
Acct Clerck 60,000 $90,000
Gen Clerks (2) $40,000 $120,000
Warehouse crew (2) $40,000 $120,000
Purchasing Agent $60,000 $90,000

$4,455,000

Allowance for site maint (grounds, etc) $2,000,000

Fuels, Office supplies, etc $1,000,000

Total Operating Cost $36,072,600

Power Generated
MW Hrs @ 90% Cap Factor 9,460,800 MW-hr

Op Cost/MW hr $3.81/MW-hr

Carrying cost @ 12% ROI $28,800,000

TOTAL COST/YEAR $64,872,600

Total Busbar Cost $/MW-hr $6.86

[Rematog]

Cost of Power and implementation of Focus Fusion on a large scale to replace existing coal, oil, natural gas and fission power plants.

The attached is a calculation of the cost of power from Focus Fusion.

Assumptions:

I

[Rematog]

Hybrids are still less attractive then all electric for automobiles, if the charging time and battery cost/life issues can be overcome.

I’ve found nothing regarding possible cost for the EEStor capacitor system.

Regarding charging the EEStor capacitor system, from my fast net search, I’ve seen about 3kv as an operating voltage. 3160V is a very common standard industrial voltage. So if a charging station is tied to existing tranmission lines, then xforms the power to 3160V, the hardward (xformers, disconnect switches, cables, plugs, etc.) are all off the shelf comercial items.

As I would envision use of my “EEStor Corolla”, I’d plug in 208V/110V at home/work, etc to charge using the onboard xformer to boost volatge to the storage level. This would take hours to charge (overnight normally).

But, when driving cross country, would pull into a charging station, plug in a heavy cable to the cars fast charge fitting, and swipe my credit card. About 5-10 minutes later (and it take that long to get kids in/out of bathroom, lol) the EEStor capacitor would be fully charged for the next 3 hour leg.

I could live with that…

[Rematog]

4.) Bio-Diesel is less energy intensive to make then ethanol. Currently, coal is burned for the heat needed to distill ethanol, and that need for heat won’t change if cellulose is the feed stock. So for a

[Rematog]

Just a thought about all this hype about hybrid cars.

1.) The batteries and electronics add a lot to to the cost. No all of us can afford Lexus/BMW class cars. My family has an older S-10 and a new Corolla. I couldn’t afford to buy a $40K hybrid. Are any selling for >$20k? I don’t see that happening soon.

2.) Batteries are very expensive. The Tesla electric sports car “the Tesla roadster is powered by a 1,000 pound bank of 6,831 (!) lithium ion laptop computer batteries” which gives it a range of 220 miles. At $2 per battery (I don’t know what they cost, but I’d expect this to be a low figure), the battery costs $13,600 alone, almost what I paid for my Corolla. I expect my Corolla to not require major engine work in a useful life of 10 years and about 150k miles. I would expect an “electric Corolla” to need at least half as big of battery ($6,800) and batteries don’t last forever. Consider an “electric Corolla” costing about 50% more then mine, can only go about 150 miles before stopping for a 3-4 hour re-charge (no long trips) and will

2.) Turbines. They are expensive to make and maintain. High temps= high cost alloys. High speeds (turbines, esp. small ones, operate at almost an order of magnatiude higher shaft rpms. If this high speed device fails, it is a bomb, pieces come out at increabable speeds. A car would require a balistic housing to protect operators or bystanders in case of turbine blade/bearing/shaft failures.

3.) Diesels are very well proved, and only slightly more expensive then gasoline engines. Bio-Diesel is less energy intensive to make. Currently, coal is burned for heat needed to distill ethonol, and that need for heat won’t change if cellulose is the feed stock.

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