continuous or pulsed power output?

[Wombat]

This may be a dumb question but that’s never stopped me before…

Will the eventual power output of the finished reactor be continuous, or will it be pulsed?

[Aeronaut]

Wombat wrote: This may be a dumb question but that’s never stopped me before…

Will the eventual power output of the finished reactor be continuous, or will it be pulsed?

I’ve never let it stop me, either, Wombat. The power will be produced in pulses and can be used in that form (synchronized to a local motor or to the national grid, for instance) or it can appear constant using a diode and capacitor arrangement like a DC power supply.

[jamesr]

The trick will be arranging that power circuitry to deliver the constant 50/60Hz 3phase output, as the pulse rate goes up and down to match power demand from the local/national grid.

The easiest way may be to go to DC then generate the nice stable sinusoidal mains frequency from that, but its not necessarily the most efficient.

[Wombat]

Thanks guys

[Brian H]

jamesr wrote: The trick will be arranging that power circuitry to deliver the constant 50/60Hz 3phase output, as the pulse rate goes up and down to match power demand from the local/national grid.

The easiest way may be to go to DC then generate the nice stable sinusoidal mains frequency from that, but its not necessarily the most efficient.

My thinking is that FFs would be installed in clusters, and they could be shut off or cranked up as 5MW units. That’s a small enough slice to smoothly match rises and falls in demand, I think. That way each unit would have a constant pulse rate, so no need to fiddle the frequency!

[Aeronaut]

Brian H wrote:

The trick will be arranging that power circuitry to deliver the constant 50/60Hz 3phase output, as the pulse rate goes up and down to match power demand from the local/national grid.

The easiest way may be to go to DC then generate the nice stable sinusoidal mains frequency from that, but its not necessarily the most efficient.

My thinking is that FFs would be installed in clusters, and they could be shut off or cranked up as 5MW units. That’s a small enough slice to smoothly match rises and falls in demand, I think. That way each unit would have a constant pulse rate, so no need to fiddle the frequency!

Every time I do rough calcs using 5MW generators I find myself sub-noting up to 15MW instantly available peak reserve per core. (boy is this juice going to cost you!). If most of the fast food and gas/convenience stores had a FF on their roof, there would be tens of thousands of local correction nodes across the continent. But first we’ll have to invest billions in a smart grid…

[Brian H]

Aeronaut wrote:

The trick will be arranging that power circuitry to deliver the constant 50/60Hz 3phase output, as the pulse rate goes up and down to match power demand from the local/national grid.

The easiest way may be to go to DC then generate the nice stable sinusoidal mains frequency from that, but its not necessarily the most efficient.

My thinking is that FFs would be installed in clusters, and they could be shut off or cranked up as 5MW units. That’s a small enough slice to smoothly match rises and falls in demand, I think. That way each unit would have a constant pulse rate, so no need to fiddle the frequency!

Every time I do rough calcs using 5MW generators I find myself sub-noting up to 15MW instantly available peak reserve per core. (boy is this juice going to cost you!). If most of the fast food and gas/convenience stores had a FF on their roof, there would be tens of thousands of local correction nodes across the continent. But first we’ll have to invest billions in a smart grid…

I think you get anode meltdown at 15MW. Increasing output would have to be from reserve idle units. Every power plant and system has to size itself for “peak demand”. So X megawatts of new FF capacity would have to replace X megawatts of peak conventional capacity. I guess that means some deliberately idled units most of the time!

[Aeronaut]

Hopefully we’ll know the initial cooling limit experimentally within 2 years. I agree with running most FFs around 90 to 95% of rated capacity. $10M worth of DPFs idled for system stability will go a lonnnggg ways. Just think, that might be enough to commission a study!

[Brian H]

Aeronaut wrote: Hopefully we’ll know the initial cooling limit experimentally within 2 years. I agree with running most FFs around 90 to 95% of rated capacity. $10M worth of DPFs idled for system stability will go a lonnnggg ways. Just think, that might be enough to commission a study!

I think that would work out to about 200MW worth of “slack”. What % of current capacity is in the gap between average and peak demand, I wonder.

[Barry Kirk]

Well excess power could go into storage for later use.

Same problem as solar and wind…

Except that the total cost of the electricity is quite a bit lower.

Would it make sense to have a couple of large central stations that would grab the excess off the grid and use electrolysis to create hydrogen?

Or go further and create Methane?

[Brian H]

Barry Kirk wrote: Well excess power could go into storage for later use.

Same problem as solar and wind…

Except that the total cost of the electricity is quite a bit lower.

Would it make sense to have a couple of large central stations that would grab the excess off the grid and use electrolysis to create hydrogen?

Or go further and create Methane?

Natural gas is already dirt cheap, and likely to stay that way, but creating liquid fuels for specialized uses etc. is an interesting possibility. But if you want to go that route, check out butanol. Much nicer characteristics than methanol and ethanol. It’s a 4-carbon alcohol.

[zapkitty]

“The grid is dead! Long live the grid!”

🙂

[Brian H]

zapkitty wrote: “The grid is dead! Long live the grid!”

🙂

Grid and bear it? :coolgrin:

[vansig]

jamesr wrote: The trick will be arranging that power circuitry to deliver the constant 50/60Hz 3phase output, as the pulse rate goes up and down to match power demand from the local/national grid.

that’s just about like keeping a flywheel at constant speed

[jamesr]

vansig wrote:

The trick will be arranging that power circuitry to deliver the constant 50/60Hz 3phase output, as the pulse rate goes up and down to match power demand from the local/national grid.

that’s just about like keeping a flywheel at constant speed

The simple solutions are the best….

I’m at Culham (the site of the JET & MAST tokamaks) at the moment – they have a couple of huge flywheels. Although theirs are used to give a pulse of output rather than constant supply.

[Author]

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