Reply To: General thought on old coal mines.

[Rezwan]

You continue to not answer the question directly.

Brian H wrote: The epitome of trust and co-operation is a sanctuary city, like Maywood, CA. Which just went bankrupt and cancelled all services and dissolved itself.

Didn’t Orange county go bankrupt a while ago? On the scale of entities that go bankrupt and dissolve, is this more noticeable than most? Produce the scale. It’s like people who claim Africa has issues because it has greater corruption. On a corruption index, Asian countries are higher up. More bribes, more everything. The more money, the more opportunities for corruption. You have to put these things in context.

A game or society without agreed and enforceable rules is just a playground for cheats and users.

A society comprised of people like you will never agree on enforceable rules. You have spent most of the rest of your posts on the forums railing against “consensus”. Now you’re saying it’s a good thing?

You know what I think this comes down to is the dynamic between spontaneous order and centrally planned order. Again, I thought you were a spontaneous guy – hence averse to “consensus” and the central planning that implies.

But apparently you’re pro central planning, as long as the rules enforced and agreed upon are the ones you espouse. You’re the dictator here, projecting, trying to calculate how to get into the position of power. Plying us with literature on that very topic. Classic.

I, on the other hand, first of all find this very humorous.

Second, I accept that about you, and most other people. Myself, too! We all have within us the dictator that wants everyone else to bow before us. If left unchecked, we just might let that character take over. But if you’ve ever had the chance to let that dictator out – well, it’s quite unpleasant. (Actually, you’ve tried, but posturing on a forum isn’t quite the same as taking over – seeing fear and cringing in your fellow human). Unless you’re a true sociopath, this just won’t be satisfying. A great story on this topic is “On the Conduct of Lord Tadanao” by Kikuchi Kan (in an anthology of Japanese Stories)

Nature, or God, or whatever, in it’s infinite wisdom, in the iterative wisdom of evolution, has made collaboration the successful strategy. When we work together, we gain tremendous benefits. If we resort to theft, we kill the golden goose. The short term benefit of theft is a test, a prisoners dilemma. Betraying one another in the short term is pathetic. Game it all you want but it’s embarrassing to watch. And it’s not in equilibrium, because people crave the higher order of collaboration. They just don’t know how to get there, and when they don’t have trust, they can’t.

Notice that the trust in sanctions and repercussions for bad behavior is also a form of trust. I trust when I stray out of my lane in traffic that I will get a lot of angry honks. People keep each other in line with this handy “communication” thing. Rarely have I gotten the “universal sign” while driving, and I have yet to be shot by a fellow motorist.

Sure, corruption, like static, builds up as people try to take advantage of trust. But people remember what you did last time, and it comes back to you. Memories. Adjustments. There’s always this background static. The progression is toward greater collaboration.

And then you die.