Reply To: Fusion Oil

[Glenn Millam]

Transmute wrote: The idea of a dramatic difference between cheap electrical energy from fusion and depleting multi-purpose energy from oil is a little presumptuous. Oil, coal and natural gas, fossil fuel in general provide energy in many ways: heat for homes, hydrogen stock from making fertilizer, explosive fuel for internal combustion engines, heat for steam turbines for electricity. DPF fusion would be ideal for producing electricity and some heat, it size would forbid it from powering small things like cars and self-powered machinery, or vehicles which need very high power densities and low mass like airplanes and helicopters (jet turbines).

http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/technology/disruptors_eestor.biz2/index.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/dealflow/archives/2005/09/kleiner_perkins_1.html

EEStor is developing the technology that will make electrical energy truly portable and efficient for most uses. It also has great financial backing. I do see where we would want to use DPF energy to make plastics and other non-fuel synthetic oil products to support our current supply of crude oil. But the natural tie of EEStor and DPF will replace almost all need for fossil fuels. Both techs look to be ready in the same time frame.

Transmute wrote: Garbage, sewage and agriculture waste are a plentiful source of organic matter, many attempts are being made to salvage this vast amount of literally thrown away energy and organic feed-stock. A technique called Hydrogenated Pyrolysis could make all other technique to extract oil substitutes and energy from these sources pale in comparison. Hydrogenated Pyrolysis consist of placing any organic matter under pressure and heat, add hydrogen and the organic matter will convert into petroleum and water (CxOyHz + H2 -> CxHn + H2O), the process is very efficient as even carbon dioxide will be converted into petroleum (CO2 + H2 -> CH4 + H2O), but Hydrogenated Pyrolysis is highly energy negative (requires much more energy in then comes out) because of the need to make hydrogen to fuel the reaction, because of this Hydrogenated Pyrolysis is at present not considered viable, if only there was a cheap energy source that could provide heat and electricity to make hydrogen and power the pyrolysis, this is what DPF fusion could provide if it becomes viable.

I’m not sure we need to continue the use of carbon-based fuels. We don’t need to recycle the CO2 that we are using; we need to sequester what we have already burned. Global warming needs to be stopped dead in its tracks. If we create synthetic oils via DPF and put it into cars in NY and LA, the CO2 isn’t going to make it to trees, grass and corn. Its gonna go into the air and add to the problem.

The atmosphere is already saturated with CO2. We need to find a way to stop emitting non-resperatory CO2.

One other consideration. As DPF hits the market and spreads, oil prices will drop, and as people get rechargeable electric cars, it will bottom out. Making synthetic fuel will have to not be cheaper than current oil prices, it will have to be cheaper than oil prices at 1990’s levels or less to be economically viable. DPF, being on the order of 10-100x cheaper than current oil prices, will always remain cheaper than fossil fuels. Same cannot be said with fuels manufactured with DPF electricity. That, and an EEStor car has the convenience of being able to recharge at home in a few minutes.

Transmute wrote: Imagine a world were all organic waste is recycled into oil: no more landfills, no more complex and energy expensive sewage treatment and wasted dry sludge, all of this becoming oil (assuming non-organic waste like metals and ceramics are extracted and recycled separately).

Imagine a world where all trash is recycled using machinery fueled by DPF electricity. With such low energy costs, we could tag all manufactured materials with readable codes and everything we junk could be recycled robotically. We could also dedicate towers to do nothing but sequester atmospheric CO2, methane, and other greenhouse gasses. No oil needed.

Fusion oil likely be more lucrative then making electricity from fusion only. Especially as world demand from fossil fuel flies over limited extraction rates. Hydrogen will likely be cheap in a DPF fusion powered world and could replace some of oil’s uses, but the rest that hydrogen can